I need ATI advice..

[bexgames]

I spoke to Phil on another thread, and he answered some questions for me. I'm going to go ahead and add another 1024 Ram, but now I am stuck for a new video card. I know I need one, and want one that will be able to support gaming (and Vista) in the future,(as well as play C4 with all the bells and whistles) but don't know which one, because it's mind boggling when you go to the ATI site. Can someone recommend what I need or rather, what my processor can actually use? I have both PCI and PCIxpress slots available.

Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated 'cause I am really lost! :eek:

[Keith]

Norman from Tilted Mill recommended the Sapphire ATI Radeoon X800 w/256MB GDDR3 memory (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102608) last week.

http://www.tiltedmill.com/forums/showpost.php?p=114029&postcount=14


The only thing you need to do is identify the type of slot your system has for a external graphics card, i.e., is it AGP (most likely) or PCI-Express (relatively new within the past year.)

I tried to find some specs on the emachines T6212, but none of the sites I checked showed what type of slot your mother may or may not have.

You may want to contact emachines and see if they can tell you.

If it's an AGP 4x/8X slot then go with Norman's recommendation.

[bexgames]

Wow, thanks for such a quick response Keith.

When I called emachines to find find out why it was showing as 386 instead of 512, she told me about the "shared" memory thing, and told me I also have a PSIxpress slot, then tried to sell me the X1300, but I don't usually do complusive buying. I like to be an informed consumer. So, I chickened out. :eek:

It plays the demo, but I want this computer to zoom through C4, and my teenage sons games for at least another year or so, then I'll invest in a new one.

If the lady at emachines was correct about the PCIxpress slot, is that the best I card I can do?

[Keith]

Yeah one review by PC Magazine lists that shared memory as a "con":

Shared memory puts a strain on performance.

Ok, so it's a PCI-Express x16 slot then?

Things to look at when shopping are not just the amount of the memory but the memory type. GDDR2 is faster than GDDR, etc. the X800GTO has GDDR3.

Another thing to look at is the number of pixel pipes the card has. The more the quicker the graphics.

The clock memory and core clock speeds will have something to do with the performance. There is also some difference in the size of the memory interface in bits either 64 bit or 128bit, with the larger probably being quicker.

Norman said that there was a hack to get the X800GTO up from its original 12 pixel pipes to 16. (voids your warranty though.)


Here is a list of the ATI Radeon PCI-express video cards at Newegg.com:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?N=2000380048+1305520549+1069609641&Submit=ENE&SubCategory=48

There's a good 10 pages of cards to pick from.

If you limit the search to just the Sapphire line (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Brand=1561&N=2000380048+1305520549+1069609641+50001561&Submit=ENE&Manufactory=1561&SubCategory=48) of Radeon PCI-Exress x16 cards, you may want to take a peek at this one:


SAPPHIRE 100130SR-BL Radeon X800GTO2 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Deluxe Video Card - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102675)

PCI Express based PC is required with one X16 lane graphics slot available on the motherboard (PCI-E version)
Connection to the system power supply is required. The power supply should have a specialized 12V graphics card power connector
350-Watt power supply or greater recommended
Intel Pentium 4/III, AMD Athlon 64/K7/ Athlon XP
256 MB system memory or more for better performance
Installation software requires CD-ROM drive
DVD playback requires DVD drive

There is a difference between the various Brands (ATI, ASUS, Sapphire, Diamond, etc.) of Radeon X series cards so compare the specs and the prices.

[bexgames]

PHEW!!!! :eek:

Am going to have to print this out, and study!! :confused:

Ok, well you sure gave me enough to go on, and I thank you very much for all your time and input Keith. Now when I go buy one, I won't get talked into what the "young kid" needs to sell ;)

Thanks! :)

[Manni]

@bexgames

if you go to here:

http://www.emachines.com/support/product_support.html?cat=Desktops&subcat=T-Series&model=T6212

hope this helps to find out the board-type!

[mouse]

Aneven better choice would we the Ati pro X1600 PCI-E with 512mb ram. Make sure that you have at least a 400watt power supply;)

[bexgames]

Thank you all! I'm now I have an excuse to go shopping!! yay...I love shopping....:D

[Avernus]

Also there is no DX10 cards out yet or coming out in the near future. The X1950 will be the last ATI Direct X 9 board and it is not even out yet. So I would not worry about DX 10 hardware support for some time. The hardware itself will not be available for a while and neither will the Operating System so you can add almost another year to that time frame until developers or most developers start to use those features or require support for them. You will be upgrading in 1-2 years again to get on the DX10 train. I just priced an ATI X1900XTX w/512mb ram up here in Canada in stock for 470 Canadian. Almost the price of an XBOX 360 alone...

[Duan Xuan]

It would be better to get a X1 generation card if you're going for ATi. The X generation (X800, etc) do not support Shader Model 3.0 and hence do not support bloom and HDR. If you want smooth and nice looking graphics, get at least an X1600Pro. I'm using the AGP version now, but IMO it's kinda laggy. I'm not sure if it's just the game.

Anyway, I'd recommend nVidia's latest budget card: GeForce 7300GT DDR3. It's the most bang for buck card now. If you don't have such a tight budget, go for the 7600GT.

[Keith]

Who let that Nvidia heretic in here! :mad: :eek: ;) :D

[Duan Xuan]

Long time no see, Keith. ;)

Well, I'm an ATi user myself, but you really have to admit that nVidia has better low-end and mainstream cards compared to ATi... The X1600 series just doesn't quite cut it.

[Keith]

I'm not so sure about that. That's what everone likes to tell you, but I'm happy with all the ATIs I've ever used. Of course, I don't buy lowend or mainstream cards, so that has something to do with it. :D

[existenz]

Hi. I also was thinking of upgrading to an X800GTO. I can play the demo and win but the mouse flickers and the game eventually lags and bogs down. I've upgraded everything I can think of, CCCleaned, defragged and got rid of unnecessary files etc. Can anyone think of anything else other than reducing ingame settings, the resolution I set to 1024x768 and medium settings etc, reduced accelaration but that didn't work except to make web pages load slower. I'd prefer to play the full game at high settings. Thanks. Also I have AGP not PCIE thanks again.:)

[existenz]

Thanks Phil for your fast reply. I did try at the 60Hz refresh rate but the mouse flickers were exactly the same so I upped the refresh rate in case it made a difference - it didn't! The audio drivers were from the Realtek site but I will see if I can get a link for you. I am open to both ATI or nVidia graphic cards I have tried both but really I prefer Nvidia.Oh by the way I wish to say thank you on behalf of everyone who you have helped with the demo over the past month or so.:) As well as Keith and anyone else I have forgotten.
Edit: Edit: I think this link may work. <<www.realtek.com.tw/products/products1-1.aspx?lineid=5 (http://www.realtek.com.tw/products/products1-1.aspx?lineid=5)>> They're from the ALC850 8 channel.
Edit2: Ohhh! I'm now a craftsman not a villager! Yay:)

[existenz]

Thanks Phil. I might just have a look round the other threads first as there are enough to get going on for now and also wait to see what the ATI gurus come up with!:) I hope the audio drivers are of use to you and others.

[Duan Xuan]

There is hardly anything to discuss about mainstream ATi graphics cards. Only the X1600 variants are mainstream cards, and being a user of one, I'd say don't get it. If you're for serious gaming, get nothing less than a X1800GTO. Don't bother about the X generation, they don't support SM3 and HDR.

nVidia does have much better options for better prices. ATi only shines in the high end area, and I doubt you would spend > US$500 for a graphics card, so forget it.

*edit* Btw you can no longer unlock pipelines for X800GTOs. When they were first released in the market, only Sapphire X800GTO2s and Connect3D X800GTOs could have their 12 pipelines unlocked to 16, and even then it wasn't 100% guaranteed to succeed. Later on, newer batches of Connect3D X800GTOs could not be unlocked, and I haven't seen any Sapphire X800s in the market for many months. So... if you're thinking of unlocking pipelines, forget it...

[existenz]

:) Thanks Duan Xuan, I wouldn't know how to unlock a pipeline so wasn't going to try I'll look at the one you suggested. I've just looked at a test for the X800 and the X1600 and they are slower than others so will look around more. Thanks again

[aaroneus]

I don't know why I had such trouble finding this info... not on VUgames or official CIV website - but it has a nice description of suggested hardware and what all those graphics settings actually do... here (http://www.worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=36319)

[Keith]

Norman, from TM, suggested the Sapphire X800GT0 as a good deal for the price which is roughly $125 on newegg.com.

Since you want to play with everything turned on then you may want to look at the higher end cards like the X1900XTX or the recently announced X1950TX, which I have not seen anywhere just yet.

Someone here just this past week, upgraded their X300 to a X1600 and said the demo runs smooth as glass now.

It really comes down to how much money you are willing to spend in the end. Newegg.com has a full list of Radeon X and X1 model cards to pick from from various makers like Sapphire, FireGL, etc.

[Keith]

I don't know why I had such trouble finding this info... not on VUgames or official CIV website - but it has a nice description of suggested hardware and what all those graphics settings actually do... here (http://www.worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=36319)

Yeah, that's the info in the demo's README.TXT file.

[existenz]

I think after looking around and preordering the full game I'll just wait till it comes out and see. I can play the demo right through now with just a minimal amount of lag. Mostly when I'm further into the game, so all the help and advice and changes I have made have helped. Thanks again everyone:D

[imhotep3147]

I'm currently running the X1600 pro (512mb) and it runs all my stuff (sim/strategy games) like a dream. Handles Oblivion quite nicely with no lag or stutters. My boyfriend plays the Battlefield series and several other graphically intensive games and it works fine. For informational purposes I'm running it on a P4 3.4, 1gb RAM, a 550w psu, and about 200gb of free HD space.

It was about 150$ (USD) when I bought it a few months ago....shouldn't be too different now. :D

[Zamolxes]

Uh boy.
Very good info here, i just realized that my system sucks lol.
I also need a new video card to be able to get those awesome pics ;). Problem is i use a slightly older motherboard, that doesnt have pci-e slot.
PCI-E is newer technoilogy than agp right? So if i buy a video card for the future, i should prolly look into PCI-E kind right? If so, I need a new motherboard lol.
So my question: If u were to upgrade your system, will u go with a PCI-E video card and new motherboard ? or AGP kind? Thanks for help!

my comp spec:
Athlon 1.6Ghz
2gig PC3200 400 Mhz ram
Radeon 9000 Pro 128mb
Asus motherboard 4x AGP (8x is better?)
270gig HD

[Keith]

If you wanted to get by you could just get a newer AGP card. 8X is faster than 4x, but a 8x card will generally run in a 4x slot. You just won't get the most performance possible from the card that way.

I you really wanted to get updated a new motherboard with a faster CPU would be the way to go. You'll probably have to get new RAM to go with that new motherboard and faster CPU. New motherboards only come with PCI-e slots now, so you would have to shop for PCI-e type video card.

Also newer MB use SATA hard drives and your older ULTRA ATA hard drive won't work.

It comes down to how much you want to spend and how much of a upgrade you really want. Unless you are willing to replace all the components yourself you may want to just shop for a entirely new system,

[mouse]

If it were me I wouldn't upgrade too far on the video card since as Keith said an AGP 8X card will step down to AGP 4X. But you wouldn't get the benefits of AGP 8X . Ati cards starting with I believe 9500 are AGP 8X cards but should be very inexpensive if you could find one (should be under $100USD). Another thing to note Ati cards from 9500 on up need a connection to your power supply that isn't shared with any other hardware and at least a 300 watt power supply.

[Zamolxes]

I think i'm just gonna upgrade the video card. ATI has this trade program, they ship me a new card, then i return my old one. And i think i'll go with X1600 PRO, 512m GDDR2, 150 bucks, not a bad deal.
Problem is i have 300W power source. DAMN IT!

[Kuplo]

I bought the ATi X1900GT recently and it plays the game good if I turn off the shadows, but if shadows are on, then it really really slows down the game. But at the moment I can live without the shadows.

But it is kind of pricey unless you buy it online. I payed almost $350.00 for it locally but found it online (dont know the online vendor so I didnt buy from them) for about $170.00

Anyway the X1900GT should be good for at least a couple years until the next version of whatever motherboards will be using arrives.

Woops, just noticed that you only have a 300w power supply, I believe the really high end ATi cards require more, although I ran this x1900gt on a 350w power supply for a week or so without problems, but then upgraded to a 680w power supply for $69.00 on sale so this card would probably be out for you if you didnt want to buy another power supply.

[PCDania]

For a fully loaded system (what ever that is) a 450Watt power supply capable of delivering at least 30Amp on 12 Volt is recommended for the X1900GT. If running CrossFire a 550 Watt power supply is recommended. Found the info by looking at the X1900GT cards at newegg.com and then searching google. I have not been able to find the info at Ati but maybe it's noted in the White Papers.

[Kuplo]

I didnt find out until I opened the box up at home (100 miles away from the electronics store) and read some insert in it. Although i think it's also on the outside of the box somewhere. But it takes a dedicated connection to it unlike some of the other video cards that dont have the need to have a seperate power connection just for the video card. That's not to say that you can't split the power cable from another device and use that, because if thats what you have to do then thats what you have to do.

My new power supply came with SLI support so it has 2 dedicated pci-e power plugs that do nothing else but supply power to the video cards.

I have a very fully loaded system over here and have knocked it back only recently by removing several xtra hard drives that I recently installed to just keep the original one and one extra 250gb drive. Found out that I really dont need the 3 500GB drives that I bought recently so I put them into my server. So my point being that I think where it says that 450w ps is needed is sort of a cushion because my system fully loaded ran the video card fine with only the 350w ps. I checked the temp of the card according to the control panel and it ran consistantly at 80c while playing games which is the same temp it runs at now when playing games. I might have to go with liquid cooling one day because 80c seems excessively hot for the GPU.

[yoshi]

I got a X1600 raedon card, and im getting the empire map bug, any suggestions?

[Marius]

As a very long term Nvidia user who saw a great deal on an ATI Radeon X700 Pro card ... and had it totally mess up my OS through its drivers and assorted malware applications ... I strongly advise you to return your new ATI card to the store and buy an Nvidia card instead.

See my angry thread here:
http://www.tiltedmill.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10288

Ati's customer support was arrogant and deceptive ... after five minutes of questions these trolls tried to get me to format my C: drive saying all my data would be safe... LOLOLOL ... nasty, malicious, evil advice.

Considering I am generally a polite person when calling customer support ... (and was today) I am highly displeased with them.

Nuff said for now ....

Marius