Best graphics card to use at the most reasonable price....

[truebrit71]

...I just upped my RAM to 1G, have a 2G processor (AMD Seplon iirc) and an ATI Radeon Xpress 200 card built in. The game will work sufficiently at lower end of graphics, but half of the reason for getting the game is the beauty of it all and at the moment with the Demo I can't. If the intermittent lagging and inability to use anything but the lowest setting continues when C4 comes out next month, what card should I upgrade to? BTW 'reasonable' means between $75-$150 range....

[Keith]

Keep in mind the game performance comes not only from the video card, but from the main processor and the the other hardware you have on your system as well.

I believe the Sempron processor is from the lower end of the AMD performance line behind the Opteron and the topend Athalon. The demo Readme.txt file does say that the Minimum required is a Intel P4 or AMD Athalon processor. You can probably run the game on lesser processors but at a performance sacrifice.

With that in mind, don't pin all your hopes on a better graphics card alone.

Is this a laptop system or a desktop system?

Does your system have a AGP slot or a PCI-Express slot?

PCI-Express slots are the latest and have been appearing in systems over the past year or so. They are faster than AGP slots. You will need to find out what slot your motherboard has before you shop for a video card.

Video topend video card models will perform better and last you a longer time than those near the bottom of the list.

Here is a page from the TigerDirect.com online store site listing their selection of video cards and their prices. They have both ATI and Nvidia cards. Find one that fits your budget and the slot in your system. My recommendation is buy a card at the high end of your budget or even better and break the budget.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Category/category_tlc.asp?CatId=28

[Keith]

BTW, Those cards on the TigerDirect page are not for laptops.

Here is their info on how to select a video card:

Choosing a Video Card
A video card or graphic card is similar to a processor, but is specially designed to control the screen images - or graphics --- on your personal computer. If you love graphics-intensive games or videos, a high quality video card is a must for your PC system. Today’s complex games simply will not perform to their maximum potential if your computer is equipped with an outdated video card. On our site you’ll find a dazzling selection of video cards that will help you achieve the highest levels of graphic performance. Buying a new graphic card for your PC can be daunting. There are many models available and options to consider. However, if you know exactly how you plan to use the card, you can make the process much simpler and choose the best video card for your needs and your budget.

Video Card Categories
The scores of video cards on the market fall into one of three main categories: Hardcore/enthusiast, mainstream and value video cards. The hardcore enthusiast video cards are the highest-end, best-performing graphic cards for 3D gaming and other demanding applications. Mainstream video cards are mid-range products offering good to excellent performance for demanding applications like 3D gaming. Value video cards are used primarily for business and desktop graphics functions, 2D gaming, and very limited 3D gaming as well as specific applications like providing TV output or S-Video output or dual monitor support. Naturally, you’ll pay the most for the high- end cards and the lowest prices for the value video cards.

Before You Buy Make Sure Your Card is Compatible.
Before you purchase a video card you need to make sure your motherboard is compatible with it. For example, PCI Express video cards (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?CatId=1558) won’t work with motherboards designed only for AGP (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?CatId=318) or PCI video cards (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?CatId=319), and vice versa. Once you’ve determined which type of video card you need, you’re ready to make your choice. We have a complete selection representing the finest brands in video cards including Asus (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?MfrId=107&CatId=28), XFX (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?MfrId=1439&CatId=28), BFG (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?MfrId=1646&CatId=28), eVGA (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?MfrId=1281&CatId=28), ATI (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?MfrId=111&CatId=28), NVIDIA (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/partners/nvidia/index.asp), Leadtek (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?MfrId=2080&CatId=28), Chaintek (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?MfrId=1186&CatId=28), Connect3D (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?MfrId=1595&CatId=28), Diablotek (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?MfrId=1793&CatId=28), Diamond Multimedia (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?MfrId=267&CatId=28), MSI (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?MfrId=590&CatId=28), PNY (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?MfrId=693&CatId=28) and many more. Regardless of whether you’re looking for high-end, mainstream or a value video card, you’ll find the right card to meet your needs right here.

[truebrit71]

Sorry, Is hould have been more specific...Two answers in bold....

Keep in mind the game performance comes not only from the video card, but from the main processor and the the other hardware you have on your system as well.

I believe the Sempron processor is from the lower end of the AMD performance line behind the Opteron and the topend Athalon. The demo Readme.txt file does say that the Minimum required is a Intel P4 or AMD Athalon processor. You can probably run the game on lesser processors but at a performance sacrifice. AMD Sempron 3500+(2.0GHz)

With that in mind, don't pin all your hopes on a better graphics card alone.

Is this a laptop system or a desktop system? Desktop

Does your system have a AGP slot or a PCI-Express slot? PCI-Express

PCI-Express slots are the latest and have been appearing in systems over the past year or so. They are faster than AGP slots. You will need to find out what slot your motherboard has before you shop for a video card.

Video topend video card models will perform better and last you a longer time than those near the bottom of the list.

Here is a page from the TigerDirect.com online store site listing their selection of video cards and their prices. They have both ATI and Nvidia cards. Find one that fits your budget and the slot in your system. My recommendation is buy a card at the high end of your budget or even better and break the budget.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Category/category_tlc.asp?CatId=28

[truebrit71]

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1892409&Tab=2&NoMapp=0

[Keith]

Sorry, Is hould have been more specific...Two answers in bold....

It's not necessarilly the speed of your processor, truebrit72, but rather its processing power. That is where the Sempron differs from the other two. The Athalon processor is the top of the line from AMD, with the Opteron following after that, and finally the Sempron, if I have it correct. The game will run but probably not as well as it would on a system with a Athalon processor.

Ok, it is good that you have desktop, that widens your choice of video cards. Laptops are rather limited in what they can use and what is available.

Like I said your best choices are from either ATI or Nvidia. You have a ATI onboard system, you may just want to upgrade to a standalone ATI card. I run a 3 year old Radeon 9800 pro myself and have had nothing but ATI cards since the early 90s. I've been happy with them and their performance. If you look at the TigerDirect ATI Store (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/partners/microsite.asp?id=AI) page you can see that there is a X700 Pro for about $125. But for $175 they have a X1600 Pro. The topend ATI card at present is a X1950XTX (http://ir.ati.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=105421&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=898452&highlight=) (just released), but that is well out of your proclaimed budget. I tend to prefer the PRO cards in the ATI line they tend to have better performance characterisitics than the non-Pro cards of the same model number.

ATI will soon be releasing their new R series cards that will be DX10 compliant. The cards above are DX9 compliant.

If you want the best performance stay away from the all-in-one type cards that offer TV tuners etc.

Or if you prefer Nvidia you can check out the TigerDirect Nvidia store (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/partners/partner1.asp?mfrid=1646&CatId=1839), the EVGA, MSI and PNY 3rd party Nvidia cards seem to have a few models in your price range.

What ever you get you should try to get something with plenty of RAM on the card.

[truebrit71]

(Save for the ATI notes as I don't use them) I agree with Keith whole-heartedly. This last sentence of his especially. MANY games have a minimum of 64MB anymore, so if you don't get at least 128MB, you're wasting both time and money. 256MB would be even better!


Sincerely,
Phil





It has 256 of RAM.....although for an extra $50 I could get the card w/ 512.....

Thoughts?

BTW, I appreciate the insightful and speedy responses from you both...Very, VERY helpful!!!

[Keith]

Can you add RAM to video cards? I thought you couldn't. They came with what they came with as far as I knew.

More video RAM may help smooth out some of the performance in games. If you can afford a video card that has 512MB I would recommend it over a 256MB version. However, 256MB is not bad.

I am just speculating here, but my guess is that video cards with 1GB of RAM probably aren't too far down the road from here. I haven't seen anything on this yet, but I just have a feeling they aren't far off. So do your research and see what is out there and what may be coming.

[mouse]

Get the card with 512mbs of ram CIV will be able to take advantage of it from the looks of the demo;)

[Ryster]

The very best nVidia card you can get right now is the GeForce 7950 GX2 with 1gb of GDDR3 memory. It is essentially two cards bolted together to make a single card. Very expensive though, millionaires only right now :p

http://www.xfxforce.com/web/product/listConfigurationDetails.jspa?productConfiguration Id=291598

Me, I just purchased an Asus GeForce 7600 GT with 256mb GDDR3 Ram (http://uk.asus.com/products4.aspx?l1=2&l2=6&l3=0&model=1175&modelmenu=1). Caesar IV runs alot smoother with this card that it did on my old 6600 GT on the same detail settings. It cost me £114, although I have seen them going for £95 for a card from BFG (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/7600_Series.html#aGX_2d025_2dBG).

Also Keith, its Athlon not Athalon :D

[Norman]

If you want cheap but good, can't go wrong with Sapphire's ATI x800gto for about $125, 256mb card with 12 pipelines, but a firmware hack can unlock it to 16 pipelines, in some cases the extra pipes are bad, but then just do a firmware restore, but if it works, you've got yourself a bargain.

[Norman]

More video RAM may help smooth out some of the performance in games. If you can afford a video card that has 512MB I would recommend it over a 256MB version. However, 256MB is not bad.

I am just speculating here, but my guess is that video cards with 1GB of RAM probably aren't too far down the road from here. I haven't seen anything on this yet, but I just have a feeling they aren't far off. So do your research and see what is out there and what may be coming.
a 256mb card with faster ram would be better than a 512mb card that's got slower ram because the card won't actually really use the extra ram before getting a bottle neck, so waste of money for most of the cards that have the extra ram, 256 is more than enough, with a card that has other decent features.

[Keith]

The problem is finding out which cards have fast and slow RAM.

[Norman]

The problem is finding out which cards have fast and slow RAM.
not really, just have a look at the spec, it'll say if it's lowly DDR or DDR2 etc...

The Sapphire card has DDR3...whist a lot of the cheap 512mb cards use DDR or DDR2...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102608 for the card I mentioned.

[Markus44]

I too have been shopping for an upgraded AGP card rather than building myself a new rig I found this Nvidia Geforce 6800 GT 256 Mb card to be very appealing.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814150157

[Keith]

True, the specs reveal all, but not all sites post the specs, so one has to do their research before buying.

[Norman]

I too have been shopping for an upgraded AGP card rather than building myself a new rig I found this Nvidia Geforce 6800 GT 256 Mb card to be very appealing.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814150157
Of the two, the ATI card is better on the spec front, especially the core clock and pipelines, and pipelines make a big difference....but the Nv card does have dual DVI which the ATI doesn't, so if you have dual DVI screens, that could be a decider...but the ATI also has HDTV out which is nice.

But then again, depends on how large your monitors are because the Nv card does have a higher res, but tbh, running the ATI on dual 21" crts at home, it works a treat.

Definitely a case of either or for the sake of $2 difference, both solid cards.

[Ryster]

Just a quick note to the folks still running AGP. You may want to consider upgrading (by upgrade I mean replace) your motherboard to support PCI-Express. The number of cards being released that support AGP is becoming less and less all the time. I reckon that in about 6 months time, no new cards at all will be AGP.

PCI-Express has far greater bandwidth than AGP and generally performs better when comparing a like for like model number.

Are those cards you listed PCI-Express or AGP? Reason I ask is because I don't know of a 7950 AGP, and AGP is what the one in question has. Just making sure mind you, not questioning what you say.

Sincerely,
Phil


Yes indeed, they are both PCI-Express models. I don't believe you can get any higher end cards in AGP format any more. AGP seems to be relegated to just the middle to lower range of the market these days.

[Keith]

Gee, for a mere $1,345 I can get myself one of these (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814195007)! :D

[Norman]

Just a quick note to the folks still running AGP. You may want to consider upgrading (by upgrade I mean replace) your motherboard to support PCI-Express. The number of cards being released that support AGP is becoming less and less all the time. I reckon that in about 6 months time, no new cards at all will be AGP.


True, but for a lot of people that aren't going to be playing high end FPS, there isn't much need to upgrade a whole system, especially if you have a P4, still a good system, so a cheap upgrade on an AGP is a good stop gap for many.

[Norman]

Gee, for a mere $1,345 I can get myself one of these (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814195007)! :D
OEM...for that kind of money, I'd want it boxed *lol*

[Rnett]

OEM...for that kind of money, I'd want it boxed *lol*

With bubblewrap too.:D

[mouse]

Norman I feel boxed is the only way to go with video cards (much better warranty) :D While OEM is ok for some parts MB, processor and video cards I will only buy retail;)

[Norman]

Norman I feel boxed is the only way to go with video cards (much better warranty) :D While OEM is ok for some parts MB, processor and video cards I will only buy retail;)
Vid cards are pretty solid, so worth getting OEM, plus if you hack the firmware you'll void the warranty anyway...so it's worth getting the OEM...unless you've had the card a while and don't want to upgrade it, then hack it :D

[Markus44]

Just a quick note to the folks still running AGP. You may want to consider upgrading (by upgrade I mean replace) your motherboard to support PCI-Express. The number of cards being released that support AGP is becoming less and less all the time. I reckon that in about 6 months time, no new cards at all will be AGP.

Do alot of research before you upgrade a Motherboard ! Most uprades to A PCI-E motherboard will get EXPENSIVE the CPU's are diffrent,the RAM is diffrent. You will need to purchase much more than just the Motherboard and Video card,basicly you will be building a whole new computer from scratch. you may be able to reuse the case and fans the power supply and any optical devices but in most instances be required to buy new RAM, a new CPU then you have to consider support for ATA hard drives,most will require upgrading to SATA hard drives then your power supply is too small to run everything so a new PS is bought....... In most cases it is not worth it your better off getting the motherboard you want,rather than the one you are forced into, and build the new system from the ground up.

Remember the motherboard is the Foundation OVER KILL here to allow for expansion in the future

[Amenirdis]

I am it seems the only nVidia loyalist who is one the the noted 5 techs we have here You're not alone, Phil. :D Besides, IIRC Manni prefers nVidia, too.

[Manni]

Manni prefers nVidia, too.
Not really Ma`am , so far I had Nvidia and ATI (desktop) at the moment. Plus an Acer notebook with Nvidia-chip.

Next desktop will defenitivly be Nvidia again. ;) :p

[Amenirdis]

No problem, Phil. :D I don't know, if I ever mentioned what card I'm running. *shrugs*

[Amenirdis]

Not really Ma`am , so far I had Nvidia and ATI (desktop) at the moment. Plus an Acer notebook with Nvidia-chip.

Next desktop will defenitivly be Nvidia again. ;) :p Yeah, sorry. I thought you said you'd buy an nvidia next time again because you prefer their kind of graphic. (I did not say you're using one currently.;) )

[Manni]

Absolutely right!

[mouse]

Ryster why should I upgrade/change my motherboard? Since it's quite a bit more than just a new motherboard, include processor, ram,video card,hard drive (since some new MBs only support Sata hard drives), video card and very likely a new power supply:eek: That's a tidy piece of change. For a point of information I have a P4 3.4ghz, 1gb ram and a 512mb agp video card:D

[Tharsis10]

In first, sorry for my poor English, I’m Brazilian.
I just love the Caesar III and wait exciting for Caesar IV since May when i heard about it.
But when I make the download of the demo I was disappointing for this.
My video card is: nVIDIA GeFORCE FX 5200, AGP 8X and 256 MB
The processor is AMD Athlon 64, 2800
I have just 512 MB RAM.

The Demo works good but with a delay about 2 seconds between my actions and the movements in game. All this problem in “restricted” interface, it seems to be better in “most restricted” way. All other configurations is in “best performance” mode.
I want to know what is going on. Is this a hardware problem in my PC? Should I buy a new video card or expand RAM memory? Or it seems to be a configuration problem? The complete version will change this point?
Please, answer me, you are my greatest hope to play this outstanding game
Thank you!

[Keith]

I would wait for the full game to come out. That way you can see how it performs with the code optimized. The demo is not optimized.

You may want to consider a newer video card that has faster DDR2 or DDR3 RAM as noted earlier by Norman.

More RAM on the computer wouldn't hurt either another 512MB to bring you up to 1GB at least.

[Ryster]

Ryster why should I upgrade/change my motherboard? Since it's quite a bit more than just a new motherboard, include processor, ram,video card,hard drive (since some new MBs only support Sata hard drives), video card and very likely a new power supply:eek: That's a tidy piece of change. For a point of information I have a P4 3.4ghz, 1gb ram and a 512mb agp video card:DI'm not saying you should upgrade your motherboard, I'm just saying that it might be time to begin considering the possibility.

For the record, upgrading to a PCI-Express board does not necessarily mean buying new processor, ram, hard drive or PSU...many are compatible with their AGP cousins... However, it obviously does mean getting a new video card. My old AGP board had the same sockets on it for processor and ram as my new PCI-Express board so I had to buy nothing apart from the motherboard and video card.

As someone has said though, do your research. Don't just go out and buy a board without knowing your current system inside and out. Find out what sockets your existing components need and then try to find a board to match.

[Keith]

I'm sure the demo has a lot of people thinking about updating their video cards at the very least.

I was just looking around the ATI site and they still have their trade-up program running (http://shop.ati.com/tradeup.asp). In short if you buy the card they have selected for the program direct from ATI's store they will give you a credit on the purchase price when you send in your old video card.

The card being offered in the program at this time is a AGP or PCI-Express version of the Radeon X1600 Pro w/512MB GDDR2. The card SRP is $199, but once you send in your old video card they'll give you a $50 credit, making the purchase prices after the credit $149.

All makes of video cards can qualify, you don't have to currently own a ATI card to participate.

You do have to live in Canada or the U.S. and have a valid credit card, however.

Trade-Up Program Frequently Asked Questions (http://shop.ati.com/tradeupfaq.asp)

[Springer]

at the dutch Vobis stores that x1600 512 mb DDR2 RAM is already for sale for 149 euro, so it does not look like a bargain to me. When i sell my current card i would profit more (but thats just the case if you live in holland and like ATI cards, i'm more of a nVidia man myself)

[ReedOfAmun]

I upgraded my video card to an Nvidia GeForce 7800 overclocked card. The game now runs as smooth as silk. :D Before the upgrade the game ran like a dog.:( .

I have had cards both by ATI and Nvidia and have nothing bad to say about them. I guess I just prefer Nvidia.

That is probably about the best I can do until I upgrade to a new system.

[Keith]

at the dutch Vobis stores that x1600 512 mb DDR2 RAM is already for sale for 149 euro, so it does not look like a bargain to me. When i sell my current card i would profit more (but thats just the case if you live in holland and like ATI cards, i'm more of a nVidia man myself)

149EUR is not $149 US, that's $191 U.S.

$149US would be $165CAD, for those north of the border from me.

[Springer]

i stand corrected ;)