Easter Egg suggestion list

[Keith]

We all know that the developers have a pretty good sense of humor from the things in past games with the little tid-bits and easter eggs they've included either in the animated graphics or with a special song like Ekplixi in Zeus.

Here's a chance to express your ideas on what "small" easter eggs you can think up. It can be outlandish or something simple and elegant, let's see it.

Example, in another thread, it was suggested that based on a fictional book that flowers spring up where ever character of Pharaoh walks.

My first idea, is outlandish and is that at some point in time under some special circumstances a UFO decends and hovers of the pyramid and recharges itself. Thus paying homage to all those silly stories that aliens built the pyramids and use them in that manner.

Another idea, I expressed earlier, was that at some point you might see Ra charge across the sky in his chariot.

As easter eggs these would require some sort of "discovery" on the part of the player and save for some animated graphic treasures should not be overly repeated during the game. These should be some special "treat" for the player.
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[vovan]

Just an aside - I think, the easter eggs should be in style with the rest of the game, so as to not disrupt the immersion. I like the flowers at the footsteps of the Pharaoh, for instance, and the chariot of Ra. But there could be some bad easter eggs. Like, if you remember Black and White, there was one moment, where a phone booth sprang up on your isle... What? Random, out of place, and not funny, IMHO. :) Soooo, easter eggs are good as long as they fit in with the rest of the theme, I think.

[Keith]

For the most part I agree, but the tie-in with the UFOs to the Pyramids is just too good to miss and is essentially in keeping with the overal theme of the game in bizarre twisted way.

Like I said, lets see them, be they outlandish or not.
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[EmperorJay]

Then again, what's the use of Easter Eggs when we've read all about it here ;).

I agree with vovan that it should fit into the theme, but I think the UFO thing would indeed be a very nice touch. It should be a really short animation though.. like a fata morgana.. so the player has to see it twice before believing it.

[vovan]

Heh, that'd be one of those "wow, did that thing really move or I am having hallucinations" things. :)

I agree that the UFO thing would sorta fit in, I was just saying. Although I would integrate the UFOs differently somehow... Maybe while you are building a pyramid, a UFO could fly by and lift a stone to the top of the pyramid with one of those "lifting rays" you see in cartoons. :)

Also, somehow I just remembered another thing from Black and White. When on of your villagers died, there was this creepy voice wispering "deeaaathhhh". Now, people claimed that after midnight, the game would wisper their name in the same voice, and that freaked them out. Okay, I don't know if it was true or not, and I don't know how it fits in here, but I just remembered that "easter egg", and figured I'd share. :)

As far suggestions go... Dancing hippos? :D

[Keith]

As far suggestions go... Dancing hippos? :D
http://community.vugames.com/Images/emoticons/rotfl.gif That was a classic!

We're just bouncing ideas here so I wouldn't worry about how they fit too much. Even if they are or aren't used it may give the devs some ideas.
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[Eddy]

I don't know how realistic it would be, but for if there are herds of animals, I'd love to see a cheat code to change the animals into cats. I'd love to see someone herding cats, or at least trying to.

[vovan]

Somehow I think there will be an easter egg of some sort involving monkeys. I mean, there are monkeys on almost every screenshot, and they are even mentioned in the FAQ. :) So, they gotta have an easter egg about 'em. :)

[OhhJim]

I like the UFO thing!

How about if you're walking by the river, you see a little boat made of bullrushes floating past? Maybe a baby could wave from inside? That would be Moses, of course. :D

[Jayhawk]

Another idea, I expressed earlier, was that at some point you might see Ra charge across the sky in his chariot.
Or Khefri rolling the sun over the horizon, like a big ball of dung.
I'd also love to see Nut spanning the sky occasionally.

[Eddy]

I will be very sad if there aren't dancing hippos.

Maybe when a festival is happening and it is dawn, the hippos could dance before the people are up. You'd have to be watching the river of course, but it would be a surreal thing.

[Miut]

Kephri, yes!
Nut, yes!
Dancing hippos, yes!
And I like my Pharaoh leaving flowers in his footprints idea. ;) (Well, Terry P's)
As for the Goa'ould appearing above the pyramid, priceless! Love it. :D

I have personally fought many a battle with the Aliens built the pyraids fraternity so this really appeals to me as well - plus I love Stargate, series and movie. Their research is amazing. I came across mention of Harsesu as a name of Horus' the other day and Stargate has the Harsesus child.
Also Naquada in the seires - and Naquada was the site of the earliest Egyptian kings, with Unas, again in the series, the first recorded King of note.
I love it when series pay that much attention to details even if they use it innovatively and imaginatvely therafter. Means several folk on the team really care about Ancient Egypt.

[Ineti]

It would be fun if they could carefully hide a shot of a representation of Steve Martin from his "King Tut" song days on Saturday Night Live. :) Hidden in a wall mural or something.

A pyramid with a floating cap that has an eye on it, like the one on the back of every US $1 bill, would be amusing as well.

[Jaguar]

Livestock on flotsam floating down the river :p

Maybe the monkeys could dance to Shock the Monkey by Peter Gabriel :)

[Atlantean Relic]

Should the UFO be the classic saucer or maybe a more Stargate like pyramidal one?

Monkey could build rafts and cross the nile.

[Atlantean Relic]

Or how about a Cat and a Monkey having a Boxing match in a alley

[Uatch-Khepheru]

scantily clad dancing women? :D

[Atlantean Relic]

I thought Egyptian Dancing girls were nude to begin with?

[Keith]

I would also like to see the continuation of the audio tidbits of the old games. Like the actor dangling upside down from the top of the stage set in Zeus would say,

"Oooh! Can we halt some the spinning please! The spinning is making me quite ill!"

or another one

"Has anyone seen my spear? How can I be a spear carrier if I don't have a spear?"

Zeus was nicely riddled with these little audio gems. I hope we will see plenty of these in CotN as well.
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[Eddy]

Well, I have no problem with dancing girls as long as they are realistically portrayed in the appropriate, erm, costume.

:D

[Miut]

Down boys! Reign in your testosterone - unless we ladies get some equally scatily loin-cloth clad male eye-candy! :D Hey, equal rights, after all...

THOSE dancing girls wearing only perfume cones and beads round neck and waist were only for Pharaoh's entertainment or big banquets. Regular temple dancers wore linen dresses or just linen kilts that allowed free movement.

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[Atlantean Relic]

Assuming there will be Brewerys maybe some should have names like modern beer companies only egyptianified.

[Rachelc258]

I love everybody's comments on this thread, so I won't try and respond to them. On the alien thing, maybe one of the little green men (or gray men, whatever, you know with the big heads that grace tabloids) could just randomly show up in your people? Remember the thing in Emperor where a spy would look like something else (though sometimes a slightly out of place somethign else) until you happened to click on him? That would be a funny alien thing.

Also, on the audio sound bits, I agree, I LOVED zeus/poseidons sound bits. They cracked me up. "The vendor is such a doric" anyway... also, "I am so smart, so very very smart [...]" always got stuck in my head.



As to the Terry pratchett thing- when someone mentioned the flowers, and it being an idea from a book, Pyramids was the first thing I thought of. But didn't he take it from somewhere else?

[Jayhawk]

THOSE dancing girls wearing only perfume cones and beads round neck and waist were only for Pharaoh's entertainment
But, Miut...aren't we supposed to be Pharaoh in this game?

Speaking of Eastereggs...any chance of the odd mummy wandering around the tombs after dark? ;)

[Ineti]

Assuming there will be Brewerys maybe some should have names like modern beer companies only egyptianified.

That's a fantastic idea! :D It should be a simple matter to phonetically spell out Budweiser, Coors, Guinness, and so on. :D

[EmperorJay]

Hy Nek Ken... hmm.. should work :D .

[Miut]

Jayhawk,
sure we are, but I want some dancing boys too! :) Think Hapshetsut and Cleopatra to name only two Queen/Pharaohs. I am sure they had male dancers and acrobats more than female ones. ;)

[Eddy]

Ok, this reminds me of the Simpsons episode where Kodos and Kang (the aliens) take over the Earth in an election.

Kang: Revealing outfits only for the men!

Crowd: BOO!

Kang: Revealing outfits only for the women!

Crowd: BOO!

Kang: Revealing outfits and little American flags for all!

Crowd: YAY!

[Miut]

Groans.. I have so been trying to forget those episodes... I had the Simpsons by osmosis as my son watched it, and I don't like it. I worked in the main lounge you see.

[Azeem]

How about having the city atacked by a mob of angry kittens when Bast gets angry?

[Miut]

Ouch! You ever been mobbed by even 2 angry kittens? Imagine needle sharp claws into bare legs as they leap onto you!

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[GillB]

Mmmm ... dancing boys ;)

Yep, I'm with Miut on that. Fair's fair. If we have to look at half-naked women let's have the men that way too :p

[Miut]

Hi GillB. Might not be many of us ladies, but we should have fair deals on the eye candy, eh?

[vovan]

Ouch! You ever been mobbed by even 2 angry kittens?

No. Only one. Needless to say, I took care never to anger him again. ;) Especially as he grew older, and his reflexes became faster than mine. :eek:

[Miut]

I had married friends with a totally evil cat called Meep.... They are reenactor friends and often had large gatherings at their house, especially if we had a show on cos some of us had to crash on their floor overnight to do the show.
Meep would go round the group, person by person, demanding scritches, and the men, cos most Viking reenactors are men, would reach down absentmindely and pet her. She''d suffer it for a few minutes till their guard was down then turn and savage their hand. They would scream in pain, and the rest would roar with laughter - until Meep went to the next one and did the same. She coudl go round a whole room like this and none of them remembered to watch out for her!.

Best was the story his wife told me of her husband waking up one night to go to the bathroom. He had to dislodge the cat from the bed, so a disgruntled Meep waited till he was getting back into bed to swipe, with claws fully extended, a certain tempting piece of male anatomy.... Ouch! Evil kitty.

We cats are a devious lot. ;)

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[Bradius]

Hum, a herd of angry kittens...Reminds me of the funny commercial where come cowboys were hearding cats. Quite funny.

I have been at whits end on this whole easter egg thing. However, I will throw out a suggestion for Santa flying about on Christmas Day. I seem to recall in Stronghold a fun Easter Egg where the villagers would say Merry Christmas m'lord on Christmas Day. Something like that would be fun.

[Kiya]

Santa flying about on Christmas Day. I seem to recall in Stronghold a fun Easter Egg where the villagers would say Merry Christmas m'lord on Christmas Day. Something like that would be fun.

That sounds OK, but I still prefer something more Egyptian related, like dancing hippos in the dawn or Ra charging across the sky or even the ufo thing mentioned before.

[Uatch-Khepheru]

Jayhawk,
sure we are, but I want some dancing boys too! :) Think Hapshetsut and Cleopatra to name only two Queen/Pharaohs. I am sure they had male dancers and acrobats more than female ones. ;)

Hey, for all you know they could have been Lesbians...or maybe even bi...

Anyway, as far as that goes, I think you should be able to change the settings to dancing girls (or....err.....boys, I guess :( ) from the options menu.

[Bradius]

Okay, Egyptian related. :rolleyes: Fine, how about a cheat where the locasts fill up your grainary instead of eat up all your food? Sorry, but I have this strange vision of them flying around with chef hats on :p

And about all these dancing people with scant clothing on. I would suggest buying Vice City, or wait for Sierra to come out with their next Larry Leisure Suit installment. Still...dancing ladies...beer hall...Ladies night then :rolleyes:

Of those I like. I vote for the aliens/flying ships and the mummies.

[Keith]

I just had an idea that since the devs say we will have a highly mobile camera, if it wouldn't be a neat idea to have a "falcon-cam". While I'm not even sure we will have birds flying about, let alone a falcon, it would be a nice effect to view your city from the perspective of a falcon as it soared over and around your city.
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[EmperorJay]

Now, that would be very, very nice! Great idea.

[Bradius]

Sounds very cool Keith! :D

[Keith]

Besides "Falcon-cam" there could be a cat-cam or croc- or hippo-cam too.

These would allow a interesting view of the city, river or surrounding area from unique and randomly changing viewpoints. From croc-/hippo-cam you could view the area from a low aspect from the river as the croc or hippo moved through the water past farms on the floodplain or boats and ships on the river. Cat-cam would give another randomly changing view of the city as the cat wandered from street to steet, into houses, or up on rooftops, etc.

Perhaps they could "bookmarked" so at any time you jump to your chosen animal view with a press of a key without having to re-find it on the map.

"Falcon-cam" would probably offer the most breath-taking views though and I would be happy with something like that.
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[EmperorJay]

Now.. if they could include an option to record such flights :p But I think that would be a little too much to ask for.

[Jayhawk]

That reminds me of Dungeon Keeper, Keith, where you could go FPP with your monsters, allowing for some very strange views ;)

I think there's at least a falcon in the intor, so there's a fair chance for them to be in the game somewhere (and possibly vultures).

I am sure they had male dancers and acrobats more than female ones.
I'm sure they had more of the latter to keep their men folk distracted/occupied. :cool:

I kinda like Bradius idea for the locusts filling up your granaries. A simple one (and probably very obvious one) would be a conga line forming with all your monkeys ;)

[Keith]

It was the falcon in the intro that gave me the idea. :)

[Miut]

Most tomb paintings show female acrobats, actually. ;)

[vovan]

Hmm... Nude female dancers, eh?

Bring back that discussion about realism, anyone? ;)

As for falcon-cam: http://www.tiltedmill.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif (They really do need a thumbs-up smiley. ;))

[Keith]

You mean this :)http://www.tiltedmill.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif :Dhttp://www.tiltedmill.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif ;)http://www.tiltedmill.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif. :D

[vovan]

Mmm, no. :p

I mean this: http://www.tiltedmill.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif but so that I don't have to copy the image URL, but can just use a smiley code, like :).

[Keith]

I was going to suggest one I keep on my site for this, but it would involve pasting the image/url again.

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[Keith]

This idea doesn't fall under the heading of a "easter egg" or maybe it does, you decide.

How about at the end of the game (I'm assuming we "die" at some point), if there's a funerary scene something similar to the one in the intro to Pharaoh, with a nice burial procession and entombment.

All is black and then ba and ka are seen leaving the mummified body in the sarcophagus as Horus appears. Horus escorts the body through the doors to the Hall of Two Truths where Osiris and other gods wait and your heart os weighed.

All your accomplishments and deeds are flashed before you and the gods.

Depending on how you did as a ruler you are either shown entering the afterlife or your heart is thrown to Ammut and you are plunged into blackness of a eternal coma.

That might be another interesting way of ending the game.
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[Jayhawk]

I'd say that failing to reach goal X doesn't necessarily make me bad enough for Anubis to feed my soul to the Devourer of Souls ;)
Then again having my country overrun by the Hyksos just might.

[EmperorJay]

Nice idea Keith, but isn't the player representing a dynasty rather than 1 Pharaoh? Still could be nice to see a short movie of a your heart thrown to Ammut when failure or a splendous funeral and a sight at your marvelous Tomb if the current life was a success?

[Miut]

Keith, I like the cut scene idea. And lads, the whole point of being Pharaoh is that we uphold Ma'at and succeed in building wonderful monuments and temples to the gods, keep the granaries full etc - namely, win the mission!

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[Bradius]

Another good idea. Frankly, I would like to see an expansion pack that would allow us to take our culture all the way into modern and possibly future development. It would be interesting to see what their culture might have been like if it dominated into current and future times. It would be too cool to have a space culture. Sorry for adding the expansion pack idea, but I am getting over excited about the possibilities :)

[Keith]

I'd say that failing to reach goal X doesn't necessarily make me bad enough for Anubis to feed my soul to the Devourer of Souls ;)
Then again having my country overrun by the Hyksos just might.No, I wouldn't want that for a single failure or two, but if you generally "fail" overall in the mission, i.e., your city is overrun by an enemy, your people hate you, your people are poor, etc. then it would be a fitting end.

Of course on the positive side if you are "too good", according to the legend, you would be equally damned. Hard to imagine that scenario given today's religion's....that you might be "too good".
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[Jayhawk]

Falling back on hubris, I guess?
Upstaging the gods was never appreciated by them.

[Josh]

Personaly I think the UFO thing would make a better cheat than an easter egg. for those of us who want to sin and finish our pyramids right away (for whatever reason) you type in the code and (as we all know) UFO's decend from mars using their better technology to build the pyramids quickly and efficiently (as we all know it would be impossible for humans to build such momumnets)

Also while not an easter egg, (or atleast one you look forward to) I always enjoyed the code is C3 that immidiately got you attacked. it was great fun to defend your city when you wanted to (try using the code 10 times in a row and fight your way out only losing half of your city :S)

its nice to blow of steam, practice defending, and test your cities defences (of course you save before you do it :)

[EmperorJay]

Not really an easter egg, but just funny to read:

http://www.outerworlds.com/likeness/aliens/aliens.html

What I said about the age of Pyramids in the other thread is on this page too, but I've seen it on more trustworthy resources such as Discovery Channel as well.

[Keith]

Flimsy evidence and wishful thinking at best.

The "proof" about the alignment to the North Magnetic Pole doesn't hold, because 5000 years ago the Magnetic Pole was in a different location, that it is aligned with the pyramid facing now is coincidence.

His evidence about the Egyptian year is wrong. The Egyptians had a 360 day year not a 365.25 day year.

The Sphynx was carved from a rock outcropping, and not "placed", so it's alignment between the pyramid and the sun is more coincidence, and the opening he took the the photo through is more likely the view planned by the Egyptians by the placement of that opening more than anything else.

The grouping of the three stars in Orion's belt and the three pyramids is no more noteworthy than any other grouping of three items. The stars are not perfectly aligned with each other but the pyramids are which is not surprising since they were aligned to the same east west facing.

He also says that the pyramids were built in 10,500 BC by aliens. Dating shows that the pyramids were built in the old Kingdom around 2500-2100 BC.

The height of the pyramid "is almost exactly 1/1,000,000,000 of the distance from the earth to the sun"? That may be, but if aliens had built it wouldn't it be exactly 1/1,000,000,000 and not "almost exactly" 1/1,000,000,000? After all, these supposed aliens had to have had sophisticated measuring equipment and since they were precise enough to align the pyramid facing to the magnet pole, according to his other evidence, they surely could have gotten the height exactly right.

Most of the material is just fantasy. Fun to think about, but just fantasy. ;)
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[EmperorJay]

Oh, but I agree! All I did was laughing the first time I saw that page. :)

[Miut]

And as I said in the other thread, all this depended on there only being 3 pyramids at Giza, but there are the 3 Queens' pyramids plus a 4th big one that is little more than an outline of mud bricks now so not often mentioned. ;)

[Keith]

I don't know why I didn't think of it before, since I used the Zeus "Expliki" file as a reference to begin with, but few musical easter eggs that might be fun and that are suitably "egyptian-ized" versions of the following songs:

King Tut (Steve Martin's song)
Walk like an Egyptian (The Bangles)

:D

I had one more in mind but lost it. I'll probably think of it later.

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[Keith]

It finally came back to me:

"Crocodile Rock" (Elton John)

Suitably "egyptian-ized", of course. ;)

I realize these three songs would probably require licensing rights.

[Jayhawk]

The Sphynx was carved from a rock outcropping, and not "placed", so it's alignment between the pyramid and the sun is more coincidence
Hmmm, Keith, why would it be coincidence to carve an outcrop so the result faces a certain direction?

The stars are not perfectly aligned with each other but the pyramids are which is not surprising since they were aligned to the same east west facing.
Hmmm, while they face the same directions, they are not aligned along a straight line. ;)
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Dating shows that the pyramids were built in the old Kingdom around 2500-2100 BC.
Can you tell e what that dating was based on? IIRC there's nothing really datable in the pyramids themselves.

And no, I'm not saying aliens built them, but things may be less straightfoward than they seem. :cool:

[Keith]

The item I was referring to was the bit about how the sun rises and traces the outline of the sphinx as it moves throught sky when viewed through a opening in the pyramid. The location of the sphinx is just coincidence the placement of the window was probably carefully selected so the sun appeared to traces the outline of the sphinx. They made the most out of a random outcropping that they just happened to have.

Those pyramids looked pretty aligned to me much more so than the stars in Orion. The probability of three items in a relative line producing a similar pattern to the arrangement of the pyramids is not that remote.

Here again, if they were constructed by aliens wouldn't they be absolutely precisely aligned? These aliens that can plot a course through the universe, but can't create a simple straight line alignment with all their science and "advanced technology" that they must have enjoyed.

All the material I have seen by accredited sources like National Geographic, and various museums have indicated the true pyramids are all of the old kingdom period. That they might be older is conjecture at this time and not proven fact. So for the time being I'll stick with the norm.
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[Jayhawk]

They made the most out of a random outcropping that they just happened to have.
It begs the question which was made first, though. If the window follows the sphinx, it says nothing abou tthe actual age of the sphinx ;)

Those pyramids looked pretty aligned to me much more so than the stars in Orion. The probability of three items in a relative line producing a similar pattern to the arrangement of the pyramids is not that remote.
It's small offset, similar to the small offset the stars on the belt have. I can't remember exactly, but that third pharaoh, was he so much less important than the other two to deserve a significantly smaller pyramid? IIRC the story claims size is relative to the starts brightness.

Here again, if they were constructed by aliens wouldn't they be absolutely precisely aligned?
As I said earlier, I don't believe aliens were involved.

These aliens that can plot a course through the universe, but can't create a simple straight line alignment with all their science and "advanced technology" that they must have enjoyed.
Men plotting such a line from the bottom of our gravity well could have gotten such results. ;)

So for the time being I'll stick with the norm.
I prefer to keep my options open.

[Keith]

Open, yes. However, people that spend their lives studying these sorts of things don't seem to support that alternate timeline you mentioned at this time.

[Jayhawk]

I get the feeling some things are blocked sometimes. Most Egyptologists would probably not be amused if they found out the thing actually was a couple thousand years older han they believed. ;)

I also believe there's chamber below the sphinx still waiting to be opened? Who knows what that might bring.

[Eddy]

Getting back to the easter eggs, I love the idea of the falcon-cam, and cat-cam.

Another one I'd like to see is more for the Futurama fans out there. I think it might be cool to have graffiti on the walls (in Egyptian) with funny sayings, or even making tribute to a certain past Egyptian-building game. Of course, tying in with the aliens, it'd be nice to use the script used in Futurama or Klingon or something if aliens built it.

[vovan]

I think it might be cool to have graffiti on the walls (in Egyptian) with funny sayings, or even making tribute to a certain past Egyptian-building game.

Not many people would understand funny sayings in Egyptian though, now would they? ;)

I forget if this has been mentioned before in this thread, and am too lazy to check now, but of course I am hoping the different industrial and other buildings will have all kinds of funny animations, like they used to in previous games. (The much beloved accupuncturist from Emperor?) :D

[Jayl]

The item I was referring to was the bit about how the sun rises and traces the outline of the sphinx as it moves throught sky when viewed through a opening in the pyramid. The location of the sphinx is just coincidence the placement of the window was probably carefully selected so the sun appeared to traces the outline of the sphinx. They made the most out of a random outcropping that they just happened to have.

That little theory was made by the engineer Robert Bauval. It was refered that the pyramids were created earlier than thought that some what aligned with Orion which would be around 10,500 BC.

He also says that the pyramids were built in 10,500 BC by aliens. Dating shows that the pyramids were built in the old Kingdom around 2500-2100 BC.

Actually you have that wrong, if you are refering to Robert Bauval's theory then he does not say they were built by aliens. He says that they were built by Egyptians that were I don't won't to use the word advanced but I guess that is what I will have to use.

I had the chance to have a chat with the man and his friend Graham Hancock, I disagree with their theories that other ancient civilizations were the bases for the tails of Atlantis and the like over the world, but Robert does present some very good evidence for the pre-dynastic Egypt. We are learning more each year about earlier man, and hey who knows it could come out to be true who knows.

[Keith]

Not many people would understand funny sayings in Egyptian though, now would they? ;)

I forget if this has been mentioned before in this thread, and am too lazy to check now, but of course I am hoping the different industrial and other buildings will have all kinds of funny animations, like they used to in previous games. (The much beloved accupuncturist from Emperor?) :D
It would probably escape the notice or understanding of most people if they were in hieroglyphics or demotic. Graphiti in tombs was not uncommon but it usually contained something very simple like a name or something small.

One of my favorite humorous saying comes from the old Benny Hill show:

Be alert! Because the world needs more lerts.

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[Keith]

The discussion about the age of the pyramids is close to hijacking this thread and probably should be continued in a thread of its own since there seems to be so much interest in it.

[Keith]

Some fun items from the old games were the codes one would enter to get humorous events to occur. As already mentioned, "Side Show" for the dancing hippos was one, the code "Cheese Puffs" to change people into cheese costumes in Zeus, "Lizardman" and "Uncle Sam" for the lizard man and Uncle Sam in Emperor were a couple more. (Emperor didn't have the same sort of humor of the past games, unfortunately.)

I could imagine something like "ET phone home" to get a UFO, a re-use of "Ancient Astronauts" to get the pyramids built quicker.
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[vovan]

Sorry, if I take this somewhat off topic, but looking at the sheer size of this thread, I thought of something else concerning Easter Eggs.

Too many is definitely a bad thing. :D

There should be few, and they should be well-hidden, IMO. Otherwise, they aren't really easter eggs, but more like simple references put into the game.

Reason I thought of this again is I was playing Fallout 2. Now, mind you, this, IMO, is one of the best games ever made, but one thing has always bothered me about it - the sheer amount of easter eggs. I mean, there are references to movies, songs, and personalities *everywhere*. It sometimes seems like the whole game is nothing more than a humongous collection of easter eggs set in the Fallout universe. That definitely kills the suspension of disbelief at times, and is not a good thing.

/rant

[Keith]

Yes, I don't want to be overrun with them either. A small to moderate number would be plenty. They should not steal the whole focus of the game and should make you smile, laugh a little, or make you say "cool".

One recent idea I had was to give the onscreen game cursor a hover function, one that would let the player peek in and see what was happening inside a building from external views when hovered over a building for a short time. It's not really a easter egg but it could be if it required a code to activate, etc.
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[Jayl]

One recent idea I had was to give the onscreen game cursor a hover function, one that would let the player peek see what was happening inside a building from external views when hovered over a building for a short time. It's not really a easter egg but it could be if it required a code to activate, etc.

Yes that would be cool, if you even played Stronghold would it be something like that or would something where you could "walk" into the building and see what is happening be better? I guess it would have to be more of a design ability to do that.

Also on the other city builders when you click on a person a pop up screen with basically the same thing is said. Possibly doing away with the pop up like would be nice and actually have them talk to you with different things. Not really a easter egg or cheat but rather a suggestion.

[Azeem]

How about we compile a single list? This is already too much for the developers to read. ;)

[EmperorJay]

Also on the other city builders when you click on a person a pop up screen with basically the same thing is said. Possibly doing away with the pop up like would be nice and actually have them talk to you with different things. Not really a easter egg or cheat but rather a suggestion.
But doing away with the pop up will mean that deaf people don't know what's going on with their citizens!

[vovan]

But doing away with the pop up will mean that deaf people don't know what's going on with their citizens!

How about subtitles? That's how speech is usually written in 3D games, any way. Besides, it's not only deaf people that need this pop-up, but also those, whose english may not be very good. I know back in the day, I used to really need subtitles and such, because I could read fairly well, but couldn't quite catch the meaning of speech, because it was too fast for me. :)

[EmperorJay]

Problem solved :) .

[Keith]

Nah, I think this is just fine. Any interesting ideas have probably already been seen and jotted down. It's not like they have to re-read the whole thread each time something new is added.
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[Keith]

Here's an idea for one of those old style caesar 3-pharaoh-zeus bits of graphical humor foud in those games for CotN.

I was reading about peasant housing and how children would play a game of jumping from one roof to another because the houses were so close together. That might be a bit of "fun" to include in the game and would give the children something different to do.
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[EmperorJay]

Even more funny would be if some would not make it to the other roof and fall in some garbage or a cactus or something :) .

[Keith]

I don't think they have cactus in Egypt. ;)

I know what you mean though. I'm sure they'll come up with something if it should find its way into the game.

[Miut]

Eww, poor kids! If you have never had a Close Encounter with prickly bushes, let me assure you it is not fun - especially as kids then went naked all the time! I got thumped in the face by a rambling rose bush and needed to get a thorn taken out of my eye. Not fun - but I got a tortoise out of it for being brave! ;)

[G-Force]

Hmm, I'd prefer to not have the thorn. Is your vision ok? One needs both eyes for depth perception.

G-Force

[Miut]

Hee hee. ;) Well said, but I didn't have a choice, the rambler caught on my cousin's cardigan when we were playing chases at Granny's house and whapped back into my face as she ran on. That didn't hurt, nor did getting it pulled out, what did was the irritating scratchiness on the inside of my eyelid till they removed it.
Meh on the tortoise.. It was all they would give me as a pet. I wanted a kitten but like when they gave me a baby brother, I didn't get what I wanted. :( It was late summer, I had the tortoise for a month then we had to pack it up for the winter to hibernate, and come spring there was only an empty shell... poor tortoise.

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[Bugsy]

I would also like to see the continuation of the audio tidbits of the old games. Like the actor dangling upside down from the top of the stage set in Zeus would say,

"Oooh! Can we halt some the spinning please! The spinning is making me quite ill!"

or another one

"Has anyone seen my spear? How can I be a spear carrier if I don't have a spear?"

Zeus was nicely riddled with these little audio gems. I hope we will see plenty of these in CotN as well.
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I loved those! Did you notice too, in Poseidon, at the University is a man paddling a student in the courtyard?? :-D

[Keith]

There were quite a few I didn't mention, but I do recall the one you pointed out.
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[Josh]

Not really an easter egg but I would appreciate seeing a simmilar .txt document allowing us to change the attributes of any structure or walker in the game, I really liked those, do your own tweaking and balancing (to make the game harder or easier, you choose, or just tailor things to how you think they should work) They were really nice, and allowed you to see "under the hood" of the game engine and understand stuff better.

[Keith]

Since this list has become more of a general suggestions list than a easter egg list, I thought I'd add a couple of items that were just discussed.

First, Profession colors - each person in a profession would have a certain color clothes. This would aid in identifying them from the overhead views of the game. Perhaps they could use enough clothing variations with the "profession color" in it so that they all are not dressed exactly the same. Let's say red is the color of a farmer. Either all or part of his clothing could be red. On one his kilt would be red, while on another a head dress would be red. No other profession would wear red.

Next, some kind of in-game index of all the people in the city. This would be a list of their names, their professions and possibly some other info like health, wealth, family size, etc. By clicking on a name in this list the screen would jump to this character on the screen. Perhaps the list could be made so that one could sort the list in one of several orders, alphabetically, by profession, by wealth, by health, etc. This way if you wanted to see how many wealthy people you had you could sort by wealth and they'd all be grouped together in descending order of wealth down to the vagrants.

Last, some way to mark a specific person to make him easy to find from the various overhead views of the game. Perhaps placing some sort of distinctive icon over the characters head or giving that person some sort of glowing aura around his body. It might be helpful that this function could be triggered from the above in-game index, so that you could "mark" all the people of one of the sorted groups, say the wealthiest. By clicking on a specific button on the list all the wealthy people, or people of one profession or another, could be immediately indicated with a distinctive icon or glowing aura, etc.
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[EmperorJay]

Good compilation. I like the last suggestion a lot, I think I would use that quite often. Imagine you have the first scribe in your city and you want to keep track of how he feels and where he goes, mark him and it's easy to follow him. If you have just solved a problem a potter had and you want to see how he's doing now, mark him.

[Miut]

I like this idea too.

[Josh]

Since this list has become more of a general suggestions list than a easter egg list, I thought I'd add a couple of items that were just discussed.

First, Profession colors - each person in a profession would have a certain color clothes. This would aid in identifying them from the overhead views of the game. Perhaps they could use enough clothing variations with the "profession color" in it so that they all are not dressed exactly the same. Let's say red is the color of a farmer. Either all or part of his clothing could be red. On one his kilt would be red, while on another a head dress would be red. No other profession would wear red.

Please dont make identification of anything (solely) reliant on colours, in all the previous games everyone looked different and the colours didn't really matter

(if you can't tell I'm colour blind) and I absolutely hate any game which won't try and show you anything in any format other than colours.

[Wen Kha-Ne]

I agree entirely with Josh here. I am also colourblind, though it is sometimes nice to see a slight difference in colour between the upper classes.

An Index would be an amazing addition however. I really want a census/lost phonebook so I can track that potter's son I saw asleep at work three seasons ago.

Digging back, I also saw a mention of Hatshepsut and men-dancers. Please correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't Hatshepsut pretend to be a man for most, if not all of her reign? Perhaps that false beard actually worked! :p

As for Cleopatra Thea, she was Ptolemaic so I am sure she would be too busy courting Romans and pretending to be Isis and Aphrodite to hire dancers. :rolleyes:

[Miut]

Oh, I don't know.. look at those infamous barge scenes in any movie or mini TV rendition of both Caesar and Cleopatra and Anthony and Cleopatra - she seduced them both using feasts, wine and dancing girls! *chuckles*

[Wen Kha-Ne]

Ah yes. My favourite being the Tarsus/Cydnus gag where Cleopatra played Aphrodite in a spot where Aphrodite and Dionysius were supposed to meet. Sadly there wasn't a Dionysius to fill the roll...roll in Mark Anthony. You know the rest!

[JDF]

I would hate the UFO if anyone still cares.

:)

[Wen Kha-Ne]

I would only like it if they associated it with the rubbish theories that the Pharaohs were obviously aliens and the pyramids built by them. I would MUCH rather just see an easter egg heiroglyph on an obelisk with a UFO on it than the actual thing. Infact I would like that quite a lot. Subtle with a hint of egg.

[JDF]

That I could stomach.

When I immerse myself into my escapist 'other game world' I sure as heck don't want to see a UFO come flying in to invade my space. Nubians, maybe; but not aliens from outer space.

[Wen Kha-Ne]

Lol. Just as long as CotN isn't like the over-the-top Zeus humour (although some ambient noise wasn't too bad, like the actor complaining) or anything biblical, I will be fine.

Although crocodile hunters lurking in a marsh isn't too bad. :rolleyes:

[Erthadon]

I think one interesting Easter Egg/Cheat could be the labourers revolting. IE, if you're severely disliked by the poorer labourers, and you don't do anything about it for a long time, they could rise up, and try to leave. And if things are really bad (Or another trigger is set off), and you try to chase them with army, etc...

Perhaps a cutscene involving your army, split sea, dry land, and washout could occur. ;)

[EmperorJay]

Hehe, that shouldn't be an Easter Egg, that should be standard! When you mess up really bad your people should revolt.

I like that last suggestion though! The exodus would be a nice easter egg.

[Wen Kha-Ne]

No! Nothing Biblical! :eek:

But it is tempting...

[Bizkit]

When thinking about easter eggs, any bit of information that comes into mind when talking about ancient Egypt could be used. Like the mummies (that one should be on top of the list), locusts, crocodiles, nubians that have been mentioned here. The UFO is a bit far-fetched, if you ask me. It should only appear as a cheat, at most. Let's try to keep things a bit realistic. Well, from the Egyptian's perspective. I especially liked the idea of seeing what goes on in buildings, and I think it should be standard, not an easter egg/cheat. Something like in The Sims, with a button activating different views. CoTN will be a huge step forward from the city builders we've seen so far, and it could very well use the good parts of other games, from city builders and military strategies to "life simulators".

Walkers' funny thoughts are a must. They've always been part of the salt 'n pepper of city builders. I especially liked the lines used in times of despair, in Zeus (when a city was attacked by monsters). Especially the "..the meaning of life is... Aaaaaa!" (or something like that, can't remember exactly) used by the philosopher.

The children playing on the rooftops is a nice idea. But what happens if you demolish the house they're jumping to? It would be like deleting the pool ladder in The Sims while Joey is doing his morning swim.

The crocodile hunters is also a good idea. Perhaps there could be a place to hire animal tamers/exterminators, if the city gets swarmed by crocodiles, mice or locusts. Or if monkeys throw tomatos at the palace guards (easter egg - wasn't there a kid throwing rocks at palace guards in Zeus?). Err.. not tomatos. There weren't any in Egypt. Some other mooshy veggies/fruits. You get the idea.

Any city has got to have thieves, especially around crowded market places. It would be fun to see a merchant chasing a thief a few blocks, cursing him as he does it. And there could be more serious crimes, like gangs of thiefs stealing money from your reserves in times of poverty (which would harden then game, losing money is the last thing you want when your funds are running low). And you could send off some guards (or hire bounty hunters - they cost more, but they have a higher chance of succes that your average dumb palace guard) to get the money back. Speaking of market places, I wonder if the classical peddler will still exist or if the lady of the house (or the nobleman's servant) will do her own shopping. Maybe both ways could find their place in the game.

Work accidents could happen. A fisherman could get drowned (with a theatrical end, gulping water and so on), a quarry worker/monument builder could get smashed by a boulder (with a short thud), a farmer could cut himself with a sickle (bleeding to death, yelling for help).. Of course, watchposts could insure the safety of your workers. Well, maybe these things are too bloody, but they do happen in real life. Forgot something about the thiefs. Did you know ancient Egyptians used to cut their right hand off? Ok, don't put that in the game, 13 year olds might want to play it too.

Ran out of ideas for today. More to come.

[Wen Kha-Ne]

Bazaar Vendors are gone. The people do their own shopping. Apart from the rich of course.

How would thieves robbing the palace in times of need be an easter egg? I remember my first ever time building Men-Nefer in Pharaoh, I got thieves later on because I spent too much on beautification. o_O

Is anyone slightly pertubed by Bizkit's morbid approach to accidents? :p Can't they just call claims direct and sue the city council for 2,000 Deben?

[EmperorJay]

Those accidents did happen, but I think they won't be displayed that graphically if at all :) .

[Bizkit]

Damn. I still think they're a good idea. They could come up as a warning if you don't have enough safety inspectors. In Tropico people would die and you got to see the cause of death. Perhaps this could be implemented in CoTN. "<Egyptian name> was taken to the Gods". "<Egyptian name> was eaten by a Crocodile (--> get more crocodile hunters)." "<Egyptian name> was killed by a thief (--> get more guards in the area) / died of cholera (--> more doctors needed). Hey, who says life was easy in ancient Egypt? The life expectancy wasn't that high.. I'm not saying people should die every other minute, but it should be part of the game (again, take a look at Tropico). Death was an important part of Egyptian culture, why ignore it?

Just a thought.

[Wen Kha-Ne]

I love it.

"Khufu - Aged 24
Cause of death : Eaten"

Then again I also love human sacrifice so it may be an idea not to add that. :p

[Keith]

Remember, Pharaoh had the falling scafold worker so at least one accident was depicted. It wouldn't be out of the question to see more.

Fishermen getting snatched from their reed boats by a crocodile on occasion would be one occupational hazard they could depict.

Farmers getting trampled by hippos grazing in their fields. Etc.

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[Eddy]

Where was the falling scaffold worker?

[Keith]

Where was the falling scaffold worker?
Wherever you had monuments and scafolds. It was the stonemason that actually did the falling.

[Wen Kha-Ne]

My favourite deaths (don't take that out of context!) will still have to be animal attacks. It is obvious they are included in the game (as depicted by the recent wallpapers) and I can't wait to see what predators or angry herbivores have been included.

I have so-far seen an Elephant (I think), a Hippo, and a Crocodile.

[Bizkit]

What about the monkeys? If they can juggle I bet they can handle a knife. :D
Just kidding. Imagine a terror army of killer primates.

I don't think the cause of death will look like it did in Tropico, all designers do their best to differentiate their work from that of others. But something of that sort should be in the game.

The first thing I'll do after I buy it will be to build a structure that generates walkers right next to a croc/hippo area, just to see what happens. :p

[Wen Kha-Ne]

What about the monkeys? If they can juggle I bet they can handle a knife.
Just kidding. Imagine a terror army of killer primates.

You have never seen the apes armed with stones on Black & White have you? :p Never before have I seen such a clumsy animal.
The first thing I'll do after I buy it will be to build a structure that generates walkers right next to a croc/hippo area, just to see what happens.

Would anyone be stupid enough to move there? :p (remember no walkers so they would have to choose to go there)

I would be a bit worried if they were. I thought AI has moved on from the days of lost Bazaar ladies distributing their last goods to a clay pit and heading straight towards a pack of hyenas just because there is a road there. ;)

[Erthadon]

No! Nothing Biblical! :eek:

But it is tempting...

Whats so bad about anything Biblical?

[Wen Kha-Ne]

Do you really want me to answer that? I don't want a flame war so I will keep it at this for now. ;)

If anything mythical/religious is to be included in CotN, then it should represent the ancient Egyptian religion.

Also, I don't want Luxor to suddenly have a blood red river (if any water gets red it should be purely because of silt :p ) and I would rather anything to do with the Biblical exodus were left out. I feel confident though because I doubt TM will add that.

[JDF]

Anything they tried to do of a biblical nature would be criticized beyond my imagination.

It might help them sell the game.... look what religion has done for selling movies! :D

I don't think it would be worth the flood of protests though.

[Miut]

We had the 7 plagues - or a good many of them - the red Nile, plague of frogs, locusts etc in the Cleopatra add on for Pharaoh. Not a new idea. But there was no inference that it was meant to be the biblical ones.

Why not have biblical references? Becasue someone would be bound to be offended, that's why. It isn't woirth the aggro.

And... like a tired old record, I'll say again - the Egyptians were obsessed with Life not death - why else would they have a religion that believed death was a continuation of Life?
See this Thread here - http://www.tiltedmill.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15&page=2&pp=20&highlight=obsessed+Life

[Wen Kha-Ne]

Uh, Miut, who said anything about Egypt being obsessed with death? Everyone knows that the Ankh is a symbol for life (and in lower Egypt, fertility) and as that is the second most common symbol associated with Egypt, that's all the proof you need that they loved life. ;)

Of course if anyone needed more, there is the term 'afterlife'. Notice how we managed to include 'life' in the Egyptian's otherworld. In Egyptia

[Keith]

We had the 7 plagues - or a good many of them - the red Nile, plague of frogs, locusts etc in the Cleopatra add on for Pharaoh. Not a new idea. But there was no inference that it was meant to be the biblical ones.

Why not have biblical references? Becasue someone would be bound to be offended, that's why. It isn't woirth the aggro.

And... like a tired old record, I'll say again - the Egyptians were obsessed with Life not death - why else would they have a religion that believed death was a continuation of Life?
See this Thread here - http://www.tiltedmill.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15&page=2&pp=20&highlight=obsessed+Life
The plagues in Cleopatra were the work of Breakaway Games which developed it. Evidently they had a different philosophy than the guys at Impressions. They did not include moses and the rest of the biblical references that they could have from the same period.
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[Miut]

Thanks fr the heads up, Keith. I'm afraid I know nothing about the composition of the tem or teams who did Pharaoh and the Cleo add on.

I'd personally rather not have biblical scenarios in the game. I'd rather stick to known and broadly accepted historical facts, but that's just my opinion. ;)

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[Jacquou Le]

I've just tested my new custom campaign for EmperorRotMK and encountered a "delicate situation". By this situation, I believe that too many other players already got this, I suggest the developers make it possible in CotN. This is NOT an easter egg suggestion. Temp called as a Call Off.

Ok, this is what happened. One of my vassal cities rebeled, temp said as city A. I sent to the city A some goods to cool down that city leader. It kept rebelling, I sent more, still, more, still. I decided to send my armies invading city A to crush them. One month later, a message poped up says city A loves me, arg, too late. The result, they hated me again :(

Because I believe that there was some "express services" in ancient time, especially in military.

Hoping...

[Azeem]

The option to call off an invasion? That might be a good thing to add, especially if you're in a situation where you have more than one enemy.

[Keith]

Sure Pharaoh will just dial up his general on the old cell phone and call off the attack that left a month earlier. ;) Sure thay had runners and messengers, but it's not a sure thing that they would reach the commander in time.

I can see your plight and I've done it myself, but even if you attack them you can make them like you again, the trick is to give them something that they buy from you in a substantial quantity. Don't give the hemp, if they don't buy hemp. If they buy silk, give them silk. Do this even after you conquer any hostile city and they'll be loyal in no time.

There seems to be a trend forming, where everyone wants to take all the risk out of playing these games by either removing the military, bribing off a enemy, or something else that would nulify any hostile action against one's city.

"I don't want to see my city destroyed after I spent hours building it up."

"I dont want to have to build an army."

"I'm no good at being a general."

What a buch of wusses.:p Suck it up and deal with it!:D The tiny bit of military action in these games gives them some spice.

You know what a game without all that is called?

Sim City. :D
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Keith Heitmann (mailto:dheitm8612@aol.com) a.k.a Nuthin-in-khamun
Listen to the music of the CityBuilders while online:
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[Miut]

Raasssspp... :P (joking of course!)

[Wen Kha-Ne]

Sure Pharaoh will just dial up his general on the old cell phone and call off the attack that left a month earlier. Sure thay had runners and messengers, but it's not a sure thing that they would reach the commander in time.

That would be quite fun. I love failing messengers. Brings me back to the days of Marathon.

There seems to be a trend forming, where everyone wants to take all the risk out of playing these games by either removing the military, bribing off a enemy, or something else that would nulify any hostile action against one's city.

"I don't want to see my city destroyed after I spent hours building it up."

"I dont want to have to build an army."

"I'm no good at being a general."

What a buch of wusses.:p Suck it up and deal with it!:D The tiny bit of military action in these games gives them some spice.

You know what a game without all that is called?

Sim City.

Very....practical, Keith! :p

As it seems, the majority of the CB community don't like the miliatary. I am no exception although I don't mind as much. So telling them to play Simcity is like telling a vegetarian that meat helps you grow big and strong. Yes I know you weren't serious...

Which is a pack of lies as far as this vegetarian is concerned. :D

[Devilsbane]

A pyramid with a floating cap that has an eye on it, like the one on the back of every US $1 bill, would be amusing as well.
Sounds like a good reward for finishing a pyramid within a fifty year time period. :D

[Devilsbane]

Down boys! Reign in your testosterone - unless we ladies get some equally scatily loin-cloth clad male eye-candy! :D Hey, equal rights, after all...

THOSE dancing girls wearing only perfume cones and beads round neck and waist were only for Pharaoh's entertainment or big banquets. Regular temple dancers wore linen dresses or just linen kilts that allowed free movement.

http://www.sff.net/people/Lisanne/Viking/images/miut.gif

How about some unics that guard the princess? Like the ones from Mel Brooks movie 'History of the World Part 1'. :eek:

[Devilsbane]

Also while not an easter egg, (or atleast one you look forward to) I always enjoyed the code is C3 that immidiately got you attacked. it was great fun to defend your city when you wanted to (try using the code 10 times in a row and fight your way out only losing half of your city :S)

its nice to blow of steam, practice defending, and test your cities defences (of course you save before you do it :)

How about the cheat code "My name is Moses". Then half of your lower class work force leaves to wander the desert for forty years. :cool:

[Devilsbane]

How about a very rare Easter egg where strange 'red skinned' foreigners arrive in the harbor or the city gates? These foreigners bring strange goods such as maize and tobacco. Since mummies of the pharaohs have tested positive for tobacco this would be reasonable. ;)

[Devilsbane]

Thanks fr the heads up, Keith. I'm afraid I know nothing about the composition of the tem or teams who did Pharaoh and the Cleo add on.

I'd personally rather not have biblical scenarios in the game. I'd rather stick to known and broadly accepted historical facts, but that's just my opinion. ;)

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Thanks to the biblical references two cities has been discovered along a now dry branch of the Nile Delta. Just like the city of Troy from Homer's Iliad was thought to be 'Mythical' until Heinrich Schliemann started digging in 1870. :D

http://www.bibleorigins.net/RamesesMapAvaris.html

http://library.thinkquest.org/3011/troy.htm
note: You may need to click this Troy link twice.

[parrotslave]

A basket with a little baby in it floating down the Nile might be cute.

However, the killing of the first born sons might not go over well with the population.

[Bizkit]

That would be quite fun. I love failing messengers. Brings me back to the days of Marathon.

The guy at Marathon (Phidippides) ran between Marathon and Athens (aprox. 40 km) after the battle between the Athenians and the Persians. He announced the victory, then literally dropped dead. So he died, but accomplished his "mission".

[Erthadon]

I'd personally rather not have biblical scenarios in the game. I'd rather stick to known and broadly accepted historical facts, but that's just my opinion. ;)


If we're being careful about not offending anyone...

I wouldn't be saying that at all. Since when does history have to negate the Bible? Even egyptian records speak of a people called 'Haibru' - so Hebrew presence in Egypt isn't just a myth.

Roman historians mention more than once a man called 'Christus', and Josephus makes mention of Jesus as well.

Thats just a few examples that show the Bible is firmly grounded in history. So don't go making broad sweeping statements about religion. Some people find it offensive.

[EmperorJay]

This is in no way my opinion on this subject!

The fact that Romans speak of Christ doesn't mean he was the son of god, perhaps he was just a rebel. The fact that Egyptians speak of the Hebrews doesn't mean that the followers of Mozes wandered through the dessert for 40 years.

I'm not saying that the above is true or that what you say is false, I'm just pointing out any arguments people might make.

[Keith]

The Romans just viewed Jesus as a troublemaker and criminal as far as I know. The Christians were just one of many religious sects of the time.

"Mozes"? What bible have you been reading? :D

The folks at Impressions pointedly avoided religious overtones and references in Caesar III and Pharaoh, and I would be quite happy to see that attitude continue here at Tilted Mill.
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Keith Heitmann (mailto:dheitm8612@aol.com) a.k.a Nuthin-in-khamun
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[Nero Would]

The folks at Impressions pointedly avoided religious overtones and references in Caesar III and Pharaoh, and I would be quite happy to see that attitude continue here at Tilted Mill.
And the many long and contentious threads in the Impressions Forums show that they were wise to do so. I agree that it is best to avoid a subject that (unfortunately) causes so much trouble in the community.

[Devilsbane]

And the many long and contentious threads in the Impressions Forums show that they were wise to do so. I agree that it is best to avoid a subject that (unfortunately) causes so much trouble in the community.

Do you mean they avoided current religions? Because including Zeus or Osiris is just like including God in a game. Heck, Bliz made a great game by including the idea of Good vs Evil.

[Nero Would]

Do you mean they avoided current religions? Because including Zeus or Osiris is just like including God in a game. Heck, Bliz made a great game by including the idea of Good vs Evil.
It seems that even ancient religions generate some arguments, but not as many as current religions.

[Keith]

The arguments seem to be by those that don't like the idea of the "pagan religions", by Christian standards, being depicted in the game. I mentioned a while back after the board first opened I had fielded a few complaints like that recently on the Pharaoh/Zeus/Caesar III boards recently. They wanted options to not have to build pagan temples or provide festivals to the gods in the game.

[Jayhawk]

"Mozes"? What bible have you been reading?
A Dutch one?

Even egyptian records speak of a people called 'Haibru' - so Hebrew presence in Egypt isn't just a myth.

Roman historians mention more than once a man called 'Christus', and Josephus makes mention of Jesus as well.

Thats just a few examples that show the Bible is firmly grounded in history.
Hmmm, the Egyptian mentions of the Hebrews are still highly argued about, and the fact that Josephus mentions Jesus doesn't make him the Messiah.
Apart from that there are numerous works of fiction, which are firmly (or less firmly) grounded in history, but would never be considered historically true in their entirity.

As you can see, the issue is far to controversial to just take the plunge.

Do you mean they avoided current religions? Because including Zeus or Osiris is just like including God in a game. Heck, Bliz made a great game by including the idea of Good vs Evil.
Good and evil has a much longer tradition that just the christian religion. The ancient Greek and Egyptian religions do not have enough active followers who are willing to go on a crusade just to prove a point.
Any game including a powerful living religion is going to run that risk, so I can see why people would be hesitant to make one.

The arguments seem to be by those that don't like the idea of the "pagan religions",
And a few odd people complaining their religion isn't faithfully represented (as I found out in the HG Age of Mythology forums)

[Miut]

I can remember the furore over Dungeons and Dragons and the Magic Users - and the demons in it. Allegations of devil worship and Satanism were all over the place and I had to tell my then small son never to mention that most weekends we visited friends in London and played D & D! It was that frightening an atmosphere.

There was also some social worker up in the Highlands of Scotland who had her minions (and yes, I chose that word on purpose) swoop on a small village and take ALL the children into care with allegations of Satanism and child abuse. Took 8 years to be sorted out, by which time many of the kids had grown up being told they had been abused by theri parents when they hadn't.

Religious fervor and fear of something they don't understand is as dangerous today in certain circles as it was in the days of the Witch Hunter General in England. Anyone with any common sense tries to stay away from topics that inflame such reactions.

Let the sleeping dogs lie. There is so much more to enjoy in a game about Ancient Egypt than touching on stories from the Bible in the game.

The Nile flowing red? It does with a red clay in suspension in the water at some times of the year I have read somewhere. Plagues of locusts and frogs were not uncommon either, and those natural phenomenon featured in Pharaoh.

I went and looked for Red Nile and found an interesting site from the University of Denver.
from http://www.du.edu/~etuttle/classics/egypt.htm
"Egypt was simply the Nile and its Delta. The weather was hot, dry, and healthy, though there were gnats. There was no timber, olive trees, or silver, just rich black soil, left by the annual flood. The river rose around the time of the summer solstice, at one time when Sirius rose with the Sun, and was high for 100 days or so. The river was clear when low, turning green as the flood approached. At the height of the flood it was red with silt."

Interestingly it says this about the Hebrews...
"The third question is the connection of Egypt with the Bible. Bible stories (from the Pentateuch) give no factual information on Egypt, and Egyptian sources hardly mention Israel, if indeed they do at all. The 'Israel' stela of Merneptah (about 1220 BC) says "Israel is desolated, and has no seed" in an account of a Libyan war, and an inscription of Shesonk I (about 930 BC) at Karnak mentions the name Abram as a place name. These may be mistranslations, of course, and may not refer to Hebrews at all. A mention of Hebrews in another inscription says no more than a group supplied tribute labor, among other groups that did so. That is all there is. All the Exodus stories were apparently created from legend and myth to provide a new kingdom with ancestors and hoary rules for a new religion. Egyptology provides not the faintest support, a great disappointment to many. Curiously, the Nile runs red during the peak flood, which may have been interpreted as blood by someone who only heard about it. No frogs or dead cattle everywhere, or drowned Pharaohs, or murdered firstborn, are ever mentioned. The later accounts of contemporary events, in Kings and later, were evidently protests at Egypt's failure to support their Palestinian allies against the Assyrians and Babylonians after Rameses III. Even these stories cannot be precisely correlated with Egyptian events. The long reign of Rameses II, often called the "pharaoh of the Bible," is rather well known, and Hebrews do not appear anywhere in it. Many hopes have been dashed by these stark facts."
Composed by J. B. Calvert, 1999
Last revised 28 July 2002

"References
Ian Shaw, ed., The Oxford History of Ancient Egypt (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2000). A good recent history based more on fact than on imagination.
James Henry Breasted, A History of Egypt, 2nd. ed. (New York: Charles Scribner's Sons, 1912), a classic.
Barbara Mertz, Temples, Tombs, and Hieroglyphs (New York, Coward-McCann, 1964).
Bill Manley, The Penguin Historical Atlas of Ancient Egypt (London: Penguin, 1996) is well illustrated and currently available.
Collier and Manley, Reading Hieroglyphs (Berkeley, CA: U. of Cal. Press, 1998) is highly recommended as an introduction."

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[Azeem]

Indeed, there are quite a number of people that seem to get easily agitated because of the portrayal of "pagan religions." However, they are not the majority of the PC gaming or the city-builder community.

Quite frankly, if people are so worked up over something that remotely has "pagan" references in it, then they should simply avoid it altogether and cease attempting to force their religious values upon others. I usually find it very, very suspicious that certain people would simply suddenly attack a game for being "pagan" even though they've already known that from the start. Not everyone in the world is the same religion.

The religious fervor and fundamentalism of a few should not deter developers from including aspects of ancient religions in games based on history just because a bunch of people want to force their own perspectives (even if it is diametrically opposed to the views of the society protrayed in the game) onto it.

[Keith]

The Nile flowing red? It does with a red clay in suspension in the water at some times of the year I have read somewhere. Plagues of locusts and frogs were not uncommon either, and those natural phenomenon featured in Pharaoh.
True, but then again Breakaway was definintely drawing inpiration from the Bible, otherwise how would also explain the burning hail as one of the other plagues in the game. ;) Now I know that doesn't happen through natural causes.

[Azeem]

Now I know that doesn't happen through natural causes.

Keith, there was geological evidence that it was caused by ash fall from a distant volcano in the Mediterranean.

[Echnaton]

Nice ideas so far, but I would always make restrictions for the easter eggs.

How easter eggs should work for me here:

1. like cheats or key combos (type P-H-A-R-A-O on your keyboard, when holding CRTL and xxx will happen.....)

2. Finish the game in a "normal mode" to enter a "easter egg" version in the main menu. There, you may find all your suggestions and discover them while replaying the game. AND you werent disturbed by silly/stranger easter eggs, when completing the game for the first time (like UFOs, dancing hippos ;) etc.).

[Jayhawk]

Plagues of locusts
There's one happening right now: Locusts invade Mauritania capital (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3537314.stm)

[Erthadon]

"...Many hopes have been dashed by these stark facts."

Oh, what shall we do. The people who would be made to look like complete idiots don't have any records of these events. Why on earth wouldn't they - it just makes complete sense that they'd want to remember the time they willing gave up their wealth, and their army subsequently got wiped out by unarmed people. Shock! Horror! Ancient Egyptians should be proud of this! They should have lots of records of this crowning achievement. I mean, its not like they had their own sort of spin doctors back then, anyways.... or is it?

[Wen Kha-Ne]

Touching off a delicate subject (for which I am probably to blame), you are right Bizkit. That was exactly my point. :p

Another sadistically fun messenger problem is the line along the Inca empire. Usually they were fine and very efficient, but one chain carried a plague from Cuzco to Ecuador, and the Sapa Inca (the name of the emperor, not the people) caught the plague and died. Very efficient.

[Keith]

Now I know that doesn't happen through natural causes.

Keith, there was geological evidence that it was caused by ash fall from a distant volcano in the Mediterranean.
That could well be, but I doubt that it would still be hot enough sbfter drifting hundreds of miles in the atmosphere to burn on the ground after it fell.

What I was going for there, was that the burning hail storm in Cleopatra came directly out of the Bible, as I suspect did the inspiration for the other plagues, and not that they couldn't have happened naturally (but burning hail is a bit hard to believe as a natural occurance and is probably embellished through the eons of telling the story through oral traditions before it was finally written down by some monk.)

I would suspect that the "hail that burned on the ground", was more than likely the ash from volcano. But rather than seeing it burn they just found the ash and assumed it burned on the ground after falling to earth. Then slowly it got changed into hail that burned on the ground over time.

[Echnaton]

Some more ideas:

1. A paperboy :D. A little boy rides a wooden bike and throws newspaper at the houses. The citizens sometimes catch it :).

2. Dunno, if we got this one already: If the citizens are very very satisfied with you as a pharao, they make special celebrations for you, which you can watch. Apart from dances and other kind of acts, there could be some comedy acts (ever seen a egyptian clown :D?)

[Miut]

Actually, Keith, looking at some of the translated writings by survivors of the famous Vesuvius explosion that took out Herculaneum and Pompeii, is interesting. I don't know how high the ash went into the atmosphere, but it certainly was still burning when it fell. Granted I'm talking about an explosion local to the towns, the same may not be true for this postulated Egyptian happening. They had, at Pompeii, the burning ash falling, and at Herculaneum, super-heated mud mainly, which is why finds at the 2 sites differ so much - thus the bodies, or rather volcanic ash casts of them, at Pompeii and none at Herculaeum, but it had better preserved furniture and floors as it tended not to have had the fire damage caused by the burning ash.

It was really weird seeing just how many villages still perch on the sides of Vesuvius, as well as vinyards. One local brew from the volcanic soil, Lacrima de Christi, (Tears of Christ) cost something like 39 pence in UK money, was maybe a couple of weeks old, and tasted wonderful. :) I took 6 bottles home with me.

But you have to walk up through roadways cut through fantastically shaped solidified flows of lava from the 1945 (I think it was) explosion to get to the top. And these people still live there, on the edge of being snuffed out of existance with only a few hours' warning. It amazes me still how they can do it. Every slight movement of the ground had me in a bit of a panic, wondering if this was the Big One. I was there in 1971 and again in 1984, and the Big One still hasn't come.

On another note, Astronomers now know that a star went nova at around 7 BC when the date of birth of Jesus is listed in most Gazeteers, and this is likely the bright star the Wise Men saw - if there is any truth in the birth of Jesus stories. Even local priests in Glasgow back in the 70's said it was only a story, and I believe the current Pope has made a declaration it should only be taken as a story not literal truth.

Anyway, I'm not trying to open a Debate on these issues here, just saying that natural phenomena, taken as signs from God, abouded till fairly recent times. There are odd meteroite showers that swing by Earth on an irregular basis - perhaps this was one of them. You know, something like the Pleiadies, (I think that's the one) but it happens only every few hundred, or maybe even longer. After all, Halley's Comet isn't exactly a regular occurence. ;)

http://www.sff.net/people/lisanne/Viking/images/Miut.gif

[Miut]

Echnaton, did you know that the Egyptians never invented the wheel? That amazed me when I read it - they had to wait until after they Hyksos reign to copy wheels. Until then they used sledges, according to the historical book I read. You'd have thought they would have, given how much building they did, but no.
This is a great example of what a frozen culture really is - it makes no new discoveries for itself because it relies on the traditional way of doing everything - no innovations are allowed.
Must check if they used the wheel for anything other than the chariots. I don't think they did, to be honest.

[Keith]

Actually, Keith, looking at some of the translated writings by survivors of the famous Vesuvius explosion that took out Herculaneum and Pompeii, is interesting. I don't know how high the ash went into the atmosphere, but it certainly was still burning when it fell. Granted I'm talking about an explosion local to the towns, the same may not be true for this postulated Egyptian happening. They had, at Pompeii, the burning ash falling, and at Herculaneum, super-heated mud mainly, which is why finds at the 2 sites differ so much - thus the bodies, or rather volcanic ash casts of them, at Pompeii and none at Herculaeum, but it had better preserved furniture and floors as it tended not to have had the fire damage caused by the burning ash.


Yes, those are called "pyroclastic clouds" and are columns of superheated air, ash, and rock the rises as high as 40,000 feet or more. Then the column collapses under its own weight and flows down the sides of the volcano like a avalanche at high speeds incinerating anything it comes in contact with. These are too heavy to travel from Italy to Egypt, and the ash would be well cooled by the time it got to Egypt. The victims in Italy were essentially buried alive in ash and smothered to death. However, the timeline of the event in Egypt doesn't match up with the famous Vesuvius' eruption.

[Erthadon]

Anyway, I'm not trying to open a Debate on these issues here, just saying that natural phenomena, taken as signs from God, abouded till fairly recent times.

Just a quick comment (not trying to start flame war). In my opinion, God can use natural phenomena to His advantage. Might as well, since He made it... ;)

[Azeem]

Yes, those are called "pyroclastic clouds" and are columns of superheated air, ash, and rock the rises as high as 40,000 feet or more. Then the column collapses under its own weight and flows down the sides of the volcano like a avalanche at high speeds incinerating anything it comes in contact with. These are too heavy to travel from Italy to Egypt, and the ash would be well cooled by the time it got to Egypt. The victims in Italy were essentially buried alive in ash and smothered to death. However, the timeline of the event in Egypt doesn't match up with the famous Vesuvius' eruption.

There was another volcano that was in a Mediterranean island. It was not the AD 69 eruption of Vesuvius. I'm not sure what the name of the island is, but it could be Santorini.

And if you've looked at maps of the impact of large explosive volcanoes (such as conical composites or calderas), the have a massive area of affect. Within this century, it is possible that we might experience such a cataclysmic eruption event from the Cascade volcanoes.

[Keith]

Etna and Stromboli are two more volcanoes in Italy. There are also a number of volcanoes in Sicily. There is even a volcano in the desert of Libya and more in neighboring Chad and Ethiopia. Any one of the could account for what may have occurred.

I thought we already had a catastrophic event at Mt. St. Helens. I'm sure we'll see more. According to one site the type of eruption at Vesuvius in 79AD is rare, only 2-3 per century.

[Miut]

Oh, what shall we do. The people who would be made to look like complete idiots don't have any records of these events. Why on earth wouldn't they - it just makes complete sense that they'd want to remember the time they willing gave up their wealth, and their army subsequently got wiped out by unarmed people. Shock! Horror! Ancient Egyptians should be proud of this! They should have lots of records of this crowning achievement. I mean, its not like they had their own sort of spin doctors back then, anyways.... or is it?

Erthadon, please be careful when attributing a quote directly to me - or to the Source I am quoting. What you Quoted was the Source, not me.
No harm done, of course, as I was merely reporting an article, not personally commenting on it.

However, it is known that in the time of Ramesses 2nd, there were fortresses all over Egypt - you couldn't travel for more than 1 day without being seen by such a fortress - which kind of makes it difficult to get lost for 40 years, wouldn't you think? ;) That kind of historical fact makes the Exodus story a bit difficult to if not believe, then at least place in the time of Ramesses 2nd, aka the Great. Which is the point the chap who wrote the article was making by other means.

http://www.sff.net/people/lisanne/Viking/images/Miut.gif

[Cassiopeia]

There was another volcano that was in a Mediterranean island. It was not the AD 69 eruption of Vesuvius. I'm not sure what the name of the island is, but it could be Santorini.

Santorini -- on the Aegean island of Thera (as any player of Poseidon will recall :D ). Santorini exploded and collapsed c 1450 BC and is thought be one of the most cataclysmic eruptions ever. It's speculated that Santorini may be the origin of not only the Biblical plagues and parting of the Red Sea (the result of a massive tsunami), but also of Atlantis, as remnants of a Minoan society have been found there. It's also been linked to the decline of the Minoan civilization on Crete.

According to my source (Time-Life book on volcanoes) 32 square miles of Thera either blew up or collapsed into the sea. What was one large island is now four small ones surrounding the caldera. It's estimated that the sound of the explosion was heard as far away as Scandinavia, that the shock wave knocked down buildings 100 miles away, that there were sea waves as high as 300 feet, and that the ash clouds blocked out sunlight in the entire Mediterranean basin for days.

On a related note -- Yahoo! today had a news blurb about a new book being published that claims Ireland is Atlantis. The gist of the story -- Ireland matches Atlantis' geography, Plato would have known of the island, there are major monolithic artifacts, and there is a documented subsidence of a large shoal off Ireland that is dated to the same era.

Cass

[Azeem]

So it was Santorini. :) That is one very interesting (and frightening) volcanic event.

And Keith, the eruption of Mt.St.Helens is considered a major eruption, but it is more of a sign that the Cascade volcanoes are becoming much more active again. Thus it's not a demostration of what those volcanoes can really do. One of the volcanoes being observed closely now is Mt.Ranier which is starting to trouble volcanologists, though I don't think it's going to be anytime too soon. :) The simplest thing that can be said about volcanoes is that the prettier they are, the more dangerous they are (such as Mt.Fuji). ;)

EDIT: I've just realized that I wrote the wrong date for the Vesuvius eruption. :p

[Miut]

Then there was the great Krakatowa one.. (excuse sp)

[Cassiopeia]

Then there was the great Krakatowa one.. (excuse sp)

Yes, Krakatoa was on much the same scale as Santorini, just better documented. They were both eruptions of a type classified as paroxysmal. As was Tambora in Indonesia, which erupted in 1815 in the most violent explosion ever recorded. Crater Lake in the Cascade Mountains of Oregon is the result of another paroxysmal eruption.

In Krakatoa (and presumably, Santorini), there was a massive eruption which emptied the magma chamber. The chamber was breached and the ocean flooded in. Then, when the now empty volcano could no longer support its own weight, it collapsed into itself, forcing the water back out again. That's what caused the enormous sea waves. Krakatoa's waves were estimated at 130 feet. They wiped out entire coastal regions and killed 36,000 people.

Krakatoa's waves had all of the Indian Ocean to dissipate into. In the much shallower and much smaller Mediterranean, Santorini's waves probably sloshed around for days.

[Wen Kha-Ne]

Echnaton, did you know that the Egyptians never invented the wheel? That amazed me when I read it - they had to wait until after they Hyksos reign to copy wheels. Until then they used sledges, according to the historical book I read. You'd have thought they would have, given how much building they did, but no.
This is a great example of what a frozen culture really is - it makes no new discoveries for itself because it relies on the traditional way of doing everything - no innovations are allowed.
Must check if they used the wheel for anything other than the chariots. I don't think they did, to be honest.

They had the potter's wheel. :p

I feel very disorientated today, but I did not read anything in Echnaton's post about wheels. Have I just missed it (this is a serious question, otherwise I probably wouldn't post in this thread right now)

[Miut]

Came across this while reading up and writing an article on the cat in Egyptian religion.

"The horse was introduced from Western Asia probably during the Hyksos domination in the early severnteenth century BC, but its use as a draft animal remained confined to two-wheeled chariots. There was no horsedrawn waggons, mainly because the Nile was such a convenient traffic artery that roads were not required. Very heavy items, such as building blocksor large statues, had to be moved pnly short distances overland, and here the cattle-drawn sled or human force were the traditional mmeans of transport. The horse was occasionally ridden but never replaced the donkey in this role. In the absence of the camel, the donkey was also the only pack animal fpr long caravan journeys across the desert."
Taken from "The Cat in Ancient Egypt by Jaromir Malek, pub British Museum Press and featured on Tour Egypt in the Cat in Religion. ;)

http://www.sff.net/people/lisanne/Viking/images/Miut.gif

[Wen Kha-Ne]

Very good, but still, where is this talk of wheels?

[Miut]

Some more ideas:

1. A paperboy :D. A little boy rides a wooden bike and throws newspaper at the houses. The citizens sometimes catch it :)


Here, Wen Kha-Ne. Wooden bicycle - I assume he intended it to have wheels... ;) Mind, a kid trying to ride one with triangular wheels would be even funnier...

[Keith]

Not that there were such things in those days, but a paperboy and donkey cart would probably be more in keeping with the spirit of the game.;)

[Miut]

Weren't even donkey carts then! I can't believe they never had the wheel until the Hyksos and chariots.. seems so alien to us that they relied totally on the river.
However, we have to think as the Egyptians did, and given all wood was imported, it would be beyond the means of any peasant to afford any and a cart was beyond their means, unlike the western and Mediterranean world where wood was more common.
I suppose anyone could bundle free reeds together to at least form a raft if not the usual papyrus boat to trundle their goods to town, or bring them back.

http://www.sff.net/people/lisanne/Viking/images/Miut.gif.

[Keith]

Weren't even donkey carts then! I can't believe they never had the wheel until the Hyksos and chariots.. seems so alien to us that they relied totally on the river.
However, we have to think as the Egyptians did, and given all wood was imported, it would be beyond the means of any peasant to afford any and a cart was beyond their means, unlike the western and Mediterranean world where wood was more common.
I suppose anyone could bundle free reeds together to at least form a raft if not the usual papyrus boat to trundle their goods to town, or bring them back.


True, it could be just a donkey with a pack of "newspapers" and this anomalous and ficticious "paperboy."

[Miut]

I can here him now.. *giggles*

"Read all about it! Get yer Daily Scribe 'ere, folks! Scandle in the temples! Pharaoh builds temple to new god and throws Amun's priests out in the road!"

http://www.sff.net/people/lisanne/Viking/images/Miut.gif

[wodinoneeye]

pyramid shaped hats on all the population (easter bonnet appropriate for an 'easter egg'??)

only 4 facets..

[wodinoneeye]

the 'mummy' goes for a walk.

havent see workers in House of the Dead yet on the character previews yet though.....

Anyone seen Natron on a game commodity list yet????

[wodinoneeye]

Nile runs red as blood....

That damned Moses is Back !!!!!

[wodinoneeye]

Yes, Krakatoa was on much the same scale as Santorini, just better documented. They were both eruptions of a type classified as paroxysmal. As was Tambora in Indonesia, which erupted in 1815 in the most violent explosion ever recorded. Crater Lake in the Cascade Mountains of Oregon is the result of another paroxysmal eruption.

In Krakatoa (and presumably, Santorini), there was a massive eruption which emptied the magma chamber. The chamber was breached and the ocean flooded in. Then, when the now empty volcano could no longer support its own weight, it collapsed into itself, forcing the water back out again. That's what caused the enormous sea waves. Krakatoa's waves were estimated at 130 feet. They wiped out entire coastal regions and killed 36,000 people.

Krakatoa's waves had all of the Indian Ocean to dissipate into. In the much shallower and much smaller Mediterranean, Santorini's waves probably sloshed around for days.



Wasnt it Thera that took out entire cities on the coast of Crete...

'that the ash clouds blocked out sunlight in the entire Mediterranean basin for days'
???? i forget which volcano or year but the dust from a large volcano (indonesia) effected the weather so much that there was no summer that year and it severely effected crops, causing famines in europe.

[Keith]

Krakatoa, 1883.

[Bizkit]

I didn't know where else to post this so I'm writing it here.

Some of the easter eggs or little details could be related to the ancient superstitions. Like all the peoples of the world, ancient Egyptians had a lot of superstitions, and some of them have lived to our day. They might be introduced into the game, as the Egyptians' beliefs and superstitions had a very important place in every day life.

Here's some data that I picked from a lot of websites: (I especially recommend TourEgypt (http://www.touregypt.net/egyptmagic1.htm) )

Sacred cats kept in a sanctuary in ancient Egypt were carefully tended by priests who watched them day and night. The priests interpreted the cat's movements - twitch of a whisker, yawn, or stretch - into a prediction of an event that would happen in the future.

Black cats are evil. In ancient Egypt, the Goddess Bast, was a black female cat. Christian priests wanted to wipe out all traces of other religions so convinced their ignorant followers to destroy the evil demons that were black cats. While they were at it, they destroyed the kindly little old ladies who cared for the cats believing them to be witches.

Walking under a ladder was bad luck because a ladder leaning against a wall formed a triangle and the Egyptians believed very strongly in the power of pyramids and triangles. To break the triangle was considered very dangerous.

The term 'bless you' came from Egypt. Tyberius Caesar would roam the city and bless all whom would sneeze, because of a sickness.

Akhenaten, then pharaoh of Egypt, popularized/enforced a monotheistic sun worshiping religion in 1380-1340 BC. His temples had no ceiling, so that the sun might shine through. Any who opened a parasol (umbrella that keeps the sun off) was denying the sun's blessing, and doing a great evil.

Archaeologists in Egypt found cat cemeteries from which a shipment of embalmed cats was taken to England. In Egypt it was believed that a black cat crossing one's path brought good luck.

The penalty for killing a cat, 4,000 years ago in Egypt, was death.


I don't have a lot of time and I couldn't search for more, this is just so you can make an idea about what I'm trying to say. Many of the superstitions above could be put into the game. Imagine someone opening a parasol in the temple (sometime around noon) and a voice going "No no no!". I remember reading some stuff about birds a while ago, but I can't remember where exactly. If a specific type of bird would fly from the Nile on the summer solstice, the harvest would be plentiful. Also if another specific bird (can't remember which one) would fly from the east of the river towards the west in a specific day, (the Egyptians burried their dead in the west, where the Sun sets and had the temples in the east), the Pharaoh or someone close to him would die soon. Ancient Egyptians used to care a lot about these omens, so did the rest of the Mediteranean and European civilizations of the time (Roman priests trying to read the future in animal intestins). Couldn't some of these be put into the game? Like a potter dropping his wares when seeing a certain animal, or farmers rejoicing when seeing the birds I was talking about, for they would have a good crop.
Just a thought.

[Hathornefer]

... a very subtle egg.

How about the pyramid workers pushing the rocks up the slopes instead of pushing them with some kind of "There has to be another way" talk.

Lets face it pyramids take a long time to build and I never spend enough time watching what is going on - and I suspect I am not alone in this.

It could always be followed by the workers trying to use camels - or a JCB ;) For that matter even magic!

I know its a bit 'off the pyramid' but I think theres scope for deveopment :D

Hath
x

[Hathornefer]

Oooh how about an invasion of scarab beatles, or locusts, or frogs to go with the invasion of the cats?

Or a massive dung beatle rolling the sun along - in a dung beatle fashion?

My favourite idea of the moment would be the introduction of weather. Many have commented that it doesnt rain/get cloudy/snow !?! in these sort of games... How about an egg that has a swift falling of snow... makes everything all white and unrecognisable - quite alarming ;)

Hath
x

[ramuhotep]

I agree with almost everything said here. Except perhaps having the UFO shaped like a pyramid a la Stargate. If the designers wish to pay tribute to Stargate, they might have an actual Stargate rise out of the sand and various citizens suddenly disappear into it. Naturally, this would have to happen during twilight so that nobody records it ;)

As Keith has pointed out, various "sound bites" can be hilarious. In Pharoah there was a filed called (IIRC) Pharoah.wav, which never activated in the game, but if you played all the .wav files (and doesn't everybody do that?) It said something to the effect of "How dare you click me?"

[Ammurit]

As Keith has pointed out, various "sound bites" can be hilarious. In Pharoah there was a filed called (IIRC) Pharoah.wav, which never activated in the game, but if you played all the .wav files (and doesn't everybody do that?) It said something to the effect of "How dare you click me?"

I had to check it out for myself! "How impertinent. When I wish to speak with you, I will address you." Is that the one you're talking about? :)

[Miut]

Sorry to repost this here, but it fitted where I put it - and here!

Egyptians had a good sense of humor, and at Deir el-Medina are many ostrakons (shards of limestone) with cartoons both bawdy and amusing on them, done by the artisans of the time.
They loved to do ones of scenes of daily life, but with a difference - like a mouse as Pharaoh etc. There's a whole lot of them showing cats fanning this mouse pharaoh, and serving food, pulling chariots, and even one of warfare with mice defenders etc.

This is ready made for Easter eggs! *smack hand to forehead* Dunno why I didn't think of them before.
Little vignettes of mice or cats aping people would be SO in character with the real Egypt! You know, like dancing hippos... ??
Can't find public pix, but will scan one from a book later this evening.

http://www.sff.net/people/lisanne/Viking/images/Miut.gif

[ramuhotep]

I had to check it out for myself! "How impertinent. When I wish to speak with you, I will address you." Is that the one you're talking about? :)

Yeppers :cool:

[RSchwind]

I vote for anything involving the monkeys. They are just begging for Easter Eggs! How about a "See no evil, Hear no evil, speak no evil" group. Not an egyptian symbol I know but at least cute. Or maybe a Monkey Line Dance. "Hey everybody it's the Monkey Macarana!!" :D

[Son of Moose]

Interesting ideas that should definitely appeal to our "monkey-loving" friends at Tilted Mill. :D Hopefully they can make the monkeys their trademark ...

[Hathornefer]

Monkeys doing the sand dance? :p

Hath
x

[Miut]

I'm beginning to think WE are the monkeys here! *chuckles*

[Hathornefer]

'm beginning to think WE are the monkeys here! *chuckles*]



If the cap fits wear it.

Hmmm or should that be cat ;)

Hath
x

[imhotep3147]

Echnaton, did you know that the Egyptians never invented the wheel? ..... Must check if they used the wheel for anything other than the chariots. I don't think they did, to be honest.


Actually its not that the wheel was unknown to the Egyptians, it's just that they did not consider it useful in transprtation. Meaning: Have you ever tried to drive anything but a 4x4 on sand?? It doesn't happen, period. :mad:

The Egyptians used the wheel in various forms in their daily life however. Things like pulleys and pottery wheels and they did have some forms of gear-ratio type systems also. They also used the wheel as a measuring aid if some sources are to be believed. :D

Back to lurking..... LOL

[imhotep3147]

Darn....forget to throw in my easter egg thoughts. Well it's not really an egg persay but.......
I'd like to see something akin to signs in that when an event occurred or was about to occur you'd see something pertaining to that event. Kind of like in Tropico and occassionally in Pharaoh. A small window would pop up with a mini movie showing what was going on or odd animal behavior used as omens (i use that word jokingly of course). For instance, if Bast is not pleased she could send a warning in the form of all cats arching their backs and hissing. Or when Anubis is pleased you hear (and see for the hearing impaired) jackals howl at the moon/sun (?). And, although I am a girl (and a straight one at that) if I'm about to hold a festival or perhaps just look in on a dance venue, I wouldn't mind seeing a dancing girl.....she shouldn't be nude of course.....unless TM releases a patch similar to the Sims one where you wouldn't get the little blurry spots covering up your sims. heheheheheheheh............ Also I actually like the idea of seeing your soul devoured if you fail a scenario/mission.....again, in Tropico I always loved the cutscene to you in a rowboat gazing at your island in the distance as you depart under a cloud of disgrace. Or when you won and all the people were cheering you on (shameless self-indulgence!!!!). :D

[Keith]

A small window would pop up with a mini movie showing what was going on or odd animal behavior used as omens I think most of us that have played Caesar III are deadset against any popup videos of any kind during the game. Videos between eras before the game starts would be fine and as a intro to the game and end game would be fine as long as there is someway to disable them for people that don't want them.

It is very annoying to have to keep clearing the screen of popups of any kind and I hope that TM avoids all types of popups.


I wouldn't mind seeing a dancing girl.....she shouldn't be nude of course.....unless TM releases a patch similar to the Sims one where you wouldn't get the little blurry spots covering up your sims. heheheheheheheh............ Spoil sport.:p ;) :) :D

[Hathornefer]

I think most of us that have played Caesar III are deadset against any popup videos of any kind during the game. Videos between eras before the game starts would be fine and as a intro to the game and end game would be fine as long as there is someway to disable them for people that don't want them.



It might work if in a Tropico kind of way the image was shown on the control panel. Perhaps where you normally see the map :D I do understand your frustration though - I too cursed playing C3.


I like the idea of mini movies mid game (not popups) - but I suspect it is a fair amount of work - and too late to implement :(


Hath
x

[Keith]

I kind of liked the bink videos that ran between eras in Pharaoh. It laid the ground for the new era that you were about to play.

[imhotep3147]

Yes, Hathornefer, got it right.....I didn't mean a screen space sucker I meant like a little window in the corner or like in Tropico where it was in the little info bubble....I liked to watch them.

:eek: Spoilsport!!! "How dare he?!" *sighs at the injustice of it all* May a thousand monkey-fleas follow you into the Field of Reeds. LOL :D

[Keith]

Yes, Hathornefer, got it right.....I didn't mean a screen space sucker I meant like a little window in the corner or like in Tropico where it was in the little info bubble....I liked to watch them.

:eek: Spoilsport!!! "How dare he?!" *sighs at the injustice of it all* May a thousand monkey-fleas follow you into the Field of Reeds. LOL :D
That GUI already looks pretty crowded. Not sure they'd have the room for a small window.

Nude dancing girls would make for one heck of a easter egg!:D :D

[Hathornefer]

Sorry - I can't resist it - the thought has been with me a full 24 hours now :p



Actually its not that the wheel was unknown to the Egyptians, it's just that they did not consider it useful in transprtation. Meaning: Have you ever tried to drive anything but a 4x4 on sand?? It doesn't happen, period. :mad:



I would have thought not using 4x4 would have resulted in a lot of Tooting-car-men :p (Think about it :rolleyes: )

Hath
x

[Son of Moose]

Excellent --- congrats!! :D

[Jacquou Le]

...Nude dancing girls would make for one heck of a easter egg!:D :D

How's about nude dancing men? :p :D

[Son of Moose]

Like Ancient Egyptian Chippendales? :eek:

[claudio]

ou yea a nude dancing girl would be really great :D

[Bizkit]

That would make the game M rated. :D
Maybe there could be a blur thingie (The Sims-style) when they start throwing that linnen underwear at the shocked ladies. :p

[claudio]

That would make the game M rated. :D
:p
is that bad??? :p

[Keith]

How's about nude dancing men? :p :D
I'm not so sure Pharaohs were bent that way at least not publicly. ;)

[Hathornefer]

I'm not so sure Pharaohs were bent that way at least not publicly. ;)


What about the occasional female ruler? ;) Or are we out of luck as it is outside the timeframe :mad:

Hath
x

[Azeem]

There is one great female ruler within this timeframe - Pharaoh Hatshepsut. She was a very capable ruler and administrator.

[claudio]

it would be cool when you could add your own face too the sphinx

[Bizkit]

Would that be technically possible?
Then again, I wouldn't want to see the Egyptian Sphinx having my green eyes on it. That'd make it unrealistic. :D

[Keith]

I would imagine that it is technically possible, but unless you had a way of digitally capturing your face from a camera or photo it would be impossible. Then that image would have to be converted into some sort of graphic format the game could understand and reproduce.

A good one for the easter egg suggestion list though.

[imhotep3147]

[QUOTE=Hathornefer
I would have thought not using 4x4 would have resulted in a lot of Tooting-car-men

Hath
x[/QUOTE]


*groans* Behold the power of cheese!! :D That was a very very ......ok it was kinda funny. :o

[wodinoneeye]

it would be cool when you could add your own face too the sphinx


They could have alot of different 'canned' faces -- various cartoon characters
(not sure how copyright apply to this) or celebrities....

[Bizkit]

Maybe, but only as an easter egg. Seeing Michael Jackson's face on the Sphinx would pretty much ruin the gaming experience for me. :p

[Janmeryet]

Seeing Michael Jackson's face on the Sphinx... :p
Yeah? Which one? :rolleyes:

[Cassiopeia]

Seeing Michael Jackson's face on the Sphinx would pretty much ruin the gaming experience for me. :p

Well, it would work. Neither one's got much of a nose left.

[RSchwind]

Michael on the Sphinx?? You'll scare the children. :eek:

[RAMasterBuilder]

Jackals pulling Stone!

[Master Builder]

Winnie the Pooh throwing Monkeys? (Raises Dead thread)

[vovan]

Winnie the Pooh throwing Monkeys?

Ewww. Straight to the "what you don't want to see?" thread this goes.

[Scott7]

Sorry to bump this, but while looking at a farming screenshot, I thought of something. I think it'd be funny if crop circles started showing up on the flood plain!

-Scott, sincerely hoping that this hasn't already been mentioned. This thread is too long to look through.

[Bizkit]

Haha! Now that's a good suggestion :p

It might actually have some reasoning.. The ones in England are supposed to be made by aliens. Just like the pyramids. :D

[dreamsoftwilight]

How about having alien writing appearing on the sides of completed pyramids, instead of the normal decorations. ;)

To go along with the crop circles in the crop fields..

[vovan]

How about having alien writing appearing on the sides of completed pyramids, instead of the normal decorations.

Egyptian hierogliphs look plenty like alien writing to me any way...

:D

Vovan

[NeilV]

How about "Terry Pratchett" type of gods apear (From the book Pyramids) essecally having 3 diffrent sun gods fighting over the sun :D

[dreamsoftwilight]

Even better! Have invading gods from other countries! hehe. Amaratsu, the sun goddess from Japan, or Zeus from Greece, Dagda from Ireland. hhaha..

[vovan]

Uh oh, here we go again treading on the thin political correctness line. If there is one thing I don't want to see in the game, that's the gods battling with gods from other countries, because then, even if the intent was comical (or maybe I should say especially), there will always be someone to whine about it and say how evil the developers are, how much they suck, and how little respect for people's values they have. I'm not a PC nut in general, but this is one of those things where you just gotta be careful. ;)

Vovan

[Master Builder]

Why not have Set and Hades have a Chess match on the west side of the nile? There Battling using logic....true you could have Sek...Forgot it again (Miut!) and Ares have a wrestling match While the goddess of beauty admire each other's clothing...Just stuff like that instead of Zeus throwing lighting at Set or whoever...But maybe for that one fat-headed priest (theres bound to be 1) maybe Zeus could zap him where the sun don't shine without killing him.

opps forgot that mortals didn't have chess back then...oh well their gods they probally have T.Vs in their homes during that time.

[vovan]

Actually, that makes me think here. What kinds of games did the Egyptians play any way? I mean, the children were bound to play something even back then? :) And yet I can't recall having heard any kind of "Egyptian" game...

Vovan

[tobing]

There was some thread some time ago dealing with the old games, especially the senet game which was popular in ancient egypt.

And yes, it could be costly to make jokes likes this. I have read recently that microsoft had some unlucky translations for some islamic countries, which caused the government to forbid the usage of Windows XP for that reason. It costed a significant amount of dollars to get things right (significant means several 100 millions). So if you want to go international then better watch your hands and tongue and don't try to be overly funny.

[Keith]

It was mentioned in one of the old threads that children did play one game of jumping from one rooftop to the next.

The other games of Senet, Hounds and Jackals, Kahali (sp?) and Aseb (or Twenty Squares) were probably played more by adults. There were also 30 square and 50 square games.

Boys played a team sport that was similar to hockey with a "puck" made of two pieces of leather stuffed with papyrus and long palm branches. Or, they would throw a spear at a target marked on the ground. They also played a form of the game of marbles. Other games played included the use of a handball.

[Miut]

Here's the Tour Egypt site on games, but I think they've all been mentioned here already. ;)
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/games.htm

[vovan]

Ah, very interesting, thanks, all. Talk about research talents. I've built how many Senet Houses in Pharaoh? And yet I never bothered to find out what Senet actually meant. :( Well, now I know, and that's a pretty cool game, it looks like. In fact, that first picture under the link that Miut gave almost looks like chess. :D

Vovan

[Master Builder]

Ok so instead of "Battles" the "outsider" gods/goddess playing games such as senet or games from where their from. (if you use a hades like the one from the cartoon hercules "flaming hair" maybe Ra could light a pipe from hades's flame as a surprize to those who watch the West side of the nile.

[Miut]

Senet is included on one of the Pharaoh/Cleo add on discs I believe. I have it installed and have played it, but it is more telling the computer to do it for you.. However it had spiritual and luck ramifications for the Ancient Egyptians. As I said in my Post on Set/Seth and all his other numerous names, there were well auspiced days, bad ones, and downright menacing ones. To land on certain areas of the senet board was enough to drive a serious player into his home imagining dire visitiations of evil from the gods! It wasn't taken as just a game in some circles. I also believe it was used for divination purposes too..

This is from memory, you understand. ;)

http://www.sff.net/people/Lisanne/Viking/images/miut.gif

[Scott7]

It might actually have some reasoning.. The ones in England are supposed to be made by aliens. Just like the pyramids. :D

Yeah, the idea was that it would accompany the alien theme. :D I didn't know they had them in England too! *mysterious music*

EDIT: Uh oh, let's not get off topic about crop circles! :rolleyes:

[Janmeryet]

You can now play Senet on a lot of flights these days, so everyone should head to Australia (for max playing time) and we'll have a CotN party at my place with senet boards all round! And other stuff...

[shellybell29]

Im sitting back just relaxing waiting till the beta test starts. and not jumping every five minutes to check my mail box either :D

i was thinking of an easter egg. And i was thinking. Maybe the characters from The Mummy. IF someone already thought of this. Sorry :)

Maybe with Imhotep
Rick O Connell
Evie
Jonathon

to name a few. or Maybe the Book of the Dead and the Book of Amun Ra

Maybe a dancing girl could be Anuck Su Namun.

*Grins* Just a thought

shell..

it would be cool if we could do a campagin with the characters of THe Mummy.

[Keith]

A small feature that would be fun, that I think may have been mentioned higher up on the thread, is to be able to name/re-name our people if we so choose.

At this point, with the beta test pending, new items are probably out of the question. I'm sure the devs have thought of some clever names for the people in CotN, they seemed to have a knack for it in the previous games.

[Ken Parker]

Default character names are based on actual ancient Egyptian names and words, modified a little to fit the context of our game (to be gender-neutral, for example). We might have sneaked a few familiar names into the list, but they aren't obvious or numerous. Since the renaming feature is included, we expect that many players will personalize their citizens' names, rendering our traditional cleverness in this area less important.

[Keith]

Default character names are based on actual ancient Egyptian names and words, modified a little to fit the context of our game (to be gender-neutral, for example). We might have sneaked a few familiar names into the list, but they aren't obvious or numerous. Since the renaming feature is included, we expect that many players will personalize their citizens' names, rendering our traditional cleverness in this area less important.
I remember that there was an extensive list of Egyptian names for the game, from a earlier post. But you know that many people will want to change them anyway, so the news about the renaming function will be welcome by many people.

Your "traditional cleverness" in that area is greatly appreciated. It was one of those little things that made the game fun. So don't stop!

[dreamsoftwilight]

Yeah I loved looking for the easter egg names! Jackie Chan (in chinese) in Emperor, that Greek restaurant guy in Zeus Stavros I think? *nods* Loads of fun, though it got kinda old after you found them all. lol

"Oh Look there goes Jackie Chan again... you'd think parents would name their children something else after while..."

hehehe

[dreamsoftwilight]

Senet is included on one of the Pharaoh/Cleo add on discs I believe. I have it installed and have played it, but it is more telling the computer to do it for you.. However it had spiritual and luck ramifications for the Ancient Egyptians. As I said in my Post on Set/Seth and all his other numerous names, there were well auspiced days, bad ones, and downright menacing ones. To land on certain areas of the senet board was enough to drive a serious player into his home imagining dire visitiations of evil from the gods! It wasn't taken as just a game in some circles. I also believe it was used for divination purposes too..

This is from memory, you understand. ;)

http://www.sff.net/people/Lisanne/Viking/images/miut.gif

The Celts had a similar belief with fidchell (which is checkers I believe), believing that entire battles could be decided in the outcome of a game! There was a story where a cletic hero played against Arawn for his freedom (I think), and during the game all sorts of weird things went on after every move...

[Sandsack]

Don´t know if someone wrote this: (too much posts to read)

A Stargate and some people who come trough it?

[gcosta]

Hello,
here's some easter egg suggestions:
Has anyone heard the mid 80's Bangles song 'Dance like an Egyptian'? Maybe mummies coming aline and dancing ike that at some point.

And more voiceover tidbits when you click a unit many times.

And dancing women taking off their cloths at some point too.

The UFO on top of the pyramid thing is preceless too!

Gino

[Son of Moose]

And dancing women taking off their cloths at some point too.

Its amazing how popular a request this is!! :p

Perhaps it might yet prove feasible if the people who decide about the rating of CotN do not know about this ... ;) :eek:

[Keith]

Hello,
here's some easter egg suggestions:
Has anyone heard the mid 80's Bangles song 'Dance like an Egyptian'? Maybe mummies coming aline and dancing ike that at some point.
Suggested it myself about a month or two ago. That and "King Tut" by Steve Martin.

And more voiceover tidbits when you click a unit many times.
We're all kind of hoping for these.

And dancing women taking off their cloths at some point too.
Yep, a popular suggestion.

The UFO on top of the pyramid thing is preceless too!
I thought it would be funny when I made the suggestion but most people would rather it didn't happen.

[Aeroc]

SHouldn't these little things shock and surprise at first and then be funny. Not shocking anymore, we just read every suggestion, lmao

[Keith]

SHouldn't these little things shock and surprise at first and then be funny. Not shocking anymore, we just read every suggestion, lmao
In their past games when they were Impressions Games, there were all sorts of little things sprinkled into the game that were just plain comical right up front and intentionally. An easter egg could be shocking or funny or geewhiz awesome or any or all of the them.

I'm sure that most of us would not complain.

[ElfPhoenix]

I'm in a definite minority, but I really don't get into easter eggs of any sort.

Elf