Natural Disasters

[Azeem]

Now we all now what a pain it can be to have your perfect city wrecked by an unsuspecting diaster. ;) But it nonetheless brings an interesting challenge. I was a bit disappointed in the disasters in the past city-builders because they were not destructive enough (though an angry Demeter in Zeus certainly was one to fear :eek: ). How about having an option to enable periodic disasters in the city like droughts, plagues, and flash floods? Or perhaps increase the effects of these disasters?

[Ineti]

I like the idea, though I'd prefer disasters to be an option, one you could turn on or off as desired. Some of the cities in Pharaoh took a significant investment of time to create and get up to speed, and I think I'd be moderately cheesed off if a scripted (or random) earthquake came along and nuked the city. :eek:

[Keith]

I like the idea, though I'd prefer disasters to be an option, one you could turn on or off as desired. Some of the cities in Pharaoh took a significant investment of time to create and get up to speed, and I think I'd be moderately cheesed off if a scripted (or random) earthquake came along and nuked the city. :eek:
Some of this was discussed earlier too, where we got into those "biblical" disasters like the "river of blood", locusts, and frogs.

I am not opposed to a occasional disaster. I just don't want them to be too frequent or if they are frequent I don't want them to do too much damage each time they occur. A single large disaster would be preferable to me instead of multiple smaller ones. After a while they do become an annoyance like the tidalwaves in the final adventure of Poseidon. Luckily they weren't to destructive and if you know where they strike you can avoid much of the damage and aggrivation of replacing what was lost.
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[G-Force]

After a while they do become an annoyance like the tidalwaves in the final adventure of Poseidon. Luckily they weren't to destructive and if you know where they strike you can avoid much of the damage and aggrivation of replacing what was lost.

Wich was were I had put up my elite housing :mad:

I don't mind disasters as long as it is possible to cope with them and survive. Imagine having your grand pyramid complex destroyed right before the last stone is in place :eek:

G-Force

[Keith]

Wich was were I had put up my elite housing :mad:

I don't mind disasters as long as it is possible to cope with them and survive. Imagine having your grand pyramid complex destroyed right before the last stone is in place :eek:

G-Force
Yeah, that would be enough to make me put the game away for a while. I would not be too happy about that.
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[Azeem]

There should be an option to set the frequency of disasters in an open-play type of game (like in "Emperor"), but also the option to set the magnitude of the disaster. Sometimes I find that the occasional disaster would break the monotony, especially after playing for a long time. Recovering from a disaster would pose an interesting challenge. And think of the sadistic entertainment you get from watching your people scurry about in terror (a bit of Schadenfreude here ;) ). :D

[Bradius]

To be honest, as a general rule I don't like natural disasters. That being said, natural disasters were a way of life in Egypt to a greater or lesser extent over their history. The great leaders found ways to survive and ultimately thrive after such disasters. I do like some scenarios that do make natural disasters a critical part of the game play, so I will be willing to deal with them from time to time, and even an extreme one from time to time. I remember one scenario in Zues that with some extreme work, I managed to finish that scenario very quickly and thus escape a major disaster. It can really create an interesting gaming experience. Frankly, I hope some branching programs exist (rather than simply random) so that if I do certain things I will (or am more likely to) have a given scripted disaster.

I just want to get my hands on the game editor :D

[Jayhawk]

We could ask for natural annoyences? ;)

I do hope the Nile floods are as fickle as the real ones, that should keep me glued to my Nilometer, and I wouldn't mind having the odd locust swarm lay waste to your nearly ripe harvest.

Disappearing pyramids is a bit much, though.

[G-Force]

Disappearing pyramids is a bit much, though.

They wouldn't disappear, there would be a crack in the foundation that forces you to destroy your pyramid and start over. Imagin actually having to destroy it yourself at 99% complete :eek:

G-Force

[Atlantean Relic]

To bad you couldn't harvest your old pyramid for spare parts. It be nice to get back some of the cost of building it.

[vovan]

You'd just have to build it waterproof next time around. ;) Imagine the glory of the pharaoh buried in the tomb that can withstand the power of the Nile.

[G-Force]

And if the Nile removes the sand under the foundation??? Floating pyramids on the Nile :cool:

G-Force

[Ineti]

And if the Nile removes the sand under the foundation??? Floating pyramids on the Nile :cool:

More like Instant Dam. :)

[vovan]

Ah, but G-Force, there is no sand under the pyramid. :) You remember digging down to the bedrock before building the pyramid in Pharaoh? :D

*Vovan becomes sad, because he realizes all of his knowledge of pyramid construction comes from Pharaoh* :o

[Eddy]

Add me to the players who would want that as an option. Nothing is more frustrating than spending your last deben to have the perfect city setup from scratch and then having the invading army give it a good thrashing. Very irritating.

[vovan]

Well, though, an invading army isn't exactly a natural disaster, now is it? :) You gotta keep those neighbors happy as well. ;)

I'm all for "configurable" natural disasters, though I believe that has been the standard practice lately. Maybe add some buttons so you could trigger a disaster a-la SimCity, too? :)

[Azeem]

There should definitely be an option to purposely trigger a disaster. Sometimes it can break the monotony. Too much of a good thing is bad. ;) Besides, though I like to build a nice city, I also find my self amused by annhialating it as well. :D I've had a lot of fun with using the "Fireballs from Heaven" cheat in Zeus as I tear my own cities apart. :D

[Keith]

One "disaster" that wasn't covered in Pharaoh and I haven't seen mentioned here so far is a sand storm. While it may not be as cataclysmic as a earthquake it would certainly make life difficult for quite a while.
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[vovan]

One "disaster" that wasn't covered in Pharaoh and I haven't seen mentioned here so far is a sand storm. While it may not be as cataclysmic as a earthquake it would certainly make life difficult for quite a while.

It was only referenced indirectly I believe when the trade routes shut down for a while becasue of the sandstorms... Or was that the message in Emperor? :confused:

[Keith]

It was only referenced indirectly I believe when the trade routes shut down for a while becasue of the sandstorms... Or was that the message in Emperor? :confused:
Not sure about Emperor. I don't recall offhand, but it was mentioned in the trade route problem message in Pharaoh. This time I'm talking about a real storm for the game. Might be a interesting effect. Raging storms burying all in its path and all. :)
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[Atlantean Relic]

Don't forget about the raids by rabid Camels ;)

[Elvenwarrior2001]

Oooh...that'd be kewl. ;) They're awnry critters. Huge llamas with an attitude problem...and I thought llamas were bad... :eek:

Elven

[Niempie]

This time I'm talking about a real storm for the game. Might be a interesting effect. Raging storms burying all in its path and all.

I would like that. And after the sandstorm you see the people clean up all their houses and all the roads. :p

[G-Force]

It might even alter the terrain, it could have expanded some elevations, closed some waterpools with sand and it wouldn't be very good for the crops either.

G-Force

[Miut]

The deserts were some way outside the Nile fertile strips, if I remember my geopgraphy of the area, so sand storms would only affect trade routes or military operations.

I did wish I could do something about the swarms of locusts and frogs, though..like put nets on the harvest, or at least gather in what I could before they hit some fields.. that would be realistic. As for the frogs.. hmm... I was never sure what on earth I was supposed to do about the frogs or the red water etc.. apart from just suffer them.. I know they were supposed to be the Moses plagues, but all the same... ;)

[Atlantean Relic]

Frog legs taste like chicken :D

[Miut]

Ewww.. I didn't need to know that... :( Now I have visions of all these little legless froggies on crutches, begging for food....

[Elvenwarrior2001]

What I really wonder is...if frogs legs taste like chicken...what does the rest of the frog look like? :confused: It must be real gross...I've never heard of people eating the rest of them, they're just sadistic. Leaving frogs cripples for life (or lack there of)! ;)

Elven

[Jayhawk]

Hmm, they throw away the rest of the (by then dead) frogs.

Floating pyramids on the Nile
Surfing pyramids?

Fondly remembers Caesar 3's surfing sheep :cool:

As for earthquakes, I think I actually remember there are occasional earthquakes in Egypt. Sand storms, I agree with Miut, would probably not hit the Nile settlements full force, but the outlying settlements might get into trouble.

[G-Force]

There were also settlements by oasisses in the desert. They could get hit by a full storm.

G-Force

[Atlantean Relic]

Well if you end up with a house full of them you might as well make the best of it. Now as to what to do with the rest of the frog, Cat food sounds like a good choice.

[Elvenwarrior2001]

But remember...cats were sacred. Wouldn't they get food superior to human food? ;)

Elven

[G-Force]

In stead of the froglegs, they get the body and head. The body and head are in a superior position to the legs :)

G-Force

[Elvenwarrior2001]

That reminds me of my biology...certain body parts I can think of were labeled as superior and inferior. I just figure...if ones inferior, why not replace it with a replica of the superior? ;)

Elven

[EmperorJay]

Back to the storms and disasters. I'm not calling for a Nile filled with blood, or an enormous swarm of locusts. But surely some part of the harvest got destroyed by insects, mice and the occasional bad-weather-day.

I hope they'll incorparotate small disasters, like a sandstorm and an lots of rain along with eartquakes and floods (which would be major disasters).

[Kiya]

The deserts were some way outside the Nile fertile strips, if I remember my geopgraphy of the area, so sand storms would only affect trade routes or military operations.



The fertile green area is rather narrow, except for the delta area. I don't think that some 10 kilometres or less makes any obstacle against sandstorms. Sandstorms can last several weeks, not just one or two days; actually the spring time sandstorms are called Khamsin which means roughly 50. This January, because of the weather with rain and sandstorms, the visibility was reduced to zero and thus several airports from Alexandria to Aswan and the Suez Canal were closed. Some people lost their lives. And all this when people have modern technology to help them.

In many cases the sand helped to preserve temples to our times, by burying them. The Temple of Edfu, which every guide book refers as "the best preserved temple in all of Egypt", was covered with sand almost to its ceiling. If you are interested, lithographs by David Roberts are very nice. He made his sketches in actual places in Egypt in 1838-1839 and they were first published in London in 1842.

Sandstorms are no minor thing for people in Egypt, but how they would be in the game, is another thing. I still hope there are some sort of natural disasters, perhaps in connection with the happiness of the people or of the gods or both. :)

[G-Force]

How can the people cause a sandstrom when they are unhappy? The gods can have that power offcourse, pending on the damage it does it could be a small or big curse.

G-Force

[vovan]

I just figure...if ones inferior, why not replace it with a replica of the superior?

Because you wouldn't want an extra two heads sticking out instead of the legs, now would you? ;)

I hope they'll incorparotate small disasters, like a sandstorm and an lots of rain

I'm all for that. :Dhttp://www.tiltedmill.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

[Kiya]

G-Force, you're right, I put it obscurely.

If you neglect your people's needs badly, they may become very unhappy and abandon your city, but also one of the gods, let's say Bastet, might send you some sort of disaster to point out your negligence of homes. Bastet is the cat headed goddess, and as cats, she has her gentle and fierce sides.

I'm for disasters, not too severe, and not too often. It would be nice to have a big variety of them, I like surprises too. :p (In Caesar3, if your resources were short, you could leave Neptun without attention, if your city was inland).

[Uatch-Khepheru]

Hey, what if some of the disasters were more oriented to the inner workings of your city?, say a building collapses or something. What would be cool is if you were building a pyramid and one of the ramps collapses, sending the blocks of stone, and those that were carrying them, to their deaths. Or maybe someone took off all the locks on the cages of the local jackal pen, meh heh heh... :D

[vovan]

Well, these kinds of "disasters" were in some previous games, I believe. The collapsing building is common - don't build any inspectors and you'll get plenty of that. :)

As far as escaping animals, if you didn't have high enough funding, the animals would escape the menagerie in Emperor. Don't know if that would have been the case in previous games. (Cleo had some sort of zoo or so?)

As far as a collapsing ramp goes - that would be... interesting. ;) (Maybe I am having hallucinations, but didn't people fall off the sphinx when working on its head in Pharaoh?)

[Keith]

Well, these kinds of "disasters" were in some previous games, I believe. The collapsing building is common - don't build any inspectors and you'll get plenty of that. :)

As far as escaping animals, if you didn't have high enough funding, the animals would escape the menagerie in Emperor. Don't know if that would have been the case in previous games. (Cleo had some sort of zoo or so?)

As far as a collapsing ramp goes - that would be... interesting. ;) (Maybe I am having hallucinations, but didn't people fall off the sphinx when working on its head in Pharaoh?)
Remember the stone carvers on the obelisks on Pharaoh. They would periodically fall off the platform. :eek: Construction accidents would add some interest to the game.
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[Miut]

Bastet came in much later, Sekhmet was the original feline goddess, also called the Eye of Ra and often referred to as his daughter.
The dog was domesticated long before the cat was, thus it took longer for the idea of the domestic feline Bastet goddess to emerge. Until then, the grain stores were subjected to the depradations of rats and mice in a big way, yes.

I have a great British Museum Press book on the Cat in Ancient Egyptian Religion which traces the probable geneology of the now familiar domestic cats. Again, it is in transit to me from the UK right now.. :(
Tomb paintings reflect this as once again, they can date the appearance of the cat in paintings, always under the Queen's throne, just as the dog is always shown with the king.

[Elvenwarrior2001]

Because you wouldn't want an extra two heads sticking out instead of the legs, now would you? ;)



I'm all for that. :Dhttp://www.tiltedmill.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

Hehe...I was just kidding. ;) Playing on the words...:p

Elven

[vovan]

(Maybe I am having hallucinations, but didn't people fall off the sphinx when working on its head in Pharaoh?)Remember the stone carvers on the obelisks on Pharaoh. They would periodically fall off the platform.

Ah, so I am not having hallucinations, though it was the construction of the obelisk and not the Sphinx where the accidents happened. :)

-------

Nice info, Miut. Interesting bits of knowledge as always. Thanks. :)

[Miut]

Thank you, kind sir. I enjoy reading and seeing what Keith puts up. :D

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[Elvenwarrior2001]

I like reading what a lot of people put up, not just one guy. ;) Actually, Vovan has mentioned some interesting stuff and made some interesting points IMO. ;)

Elven

[Miut]

He sure does, and so do many others. I didn't mean to infer I don't read and enjoy all the posts in topics that interest me! Heck, I enjoy it all here! It's so nice to be able to get into discussions about Egyptian culture in depth, and to learn even more about it from fellow enthusiasts! ;) But I am not going to list all the people I pay special attention to - far too many of you here fit that category and have that knowledge. ;)

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[Jacquou Le]

Make avalanche in Egypt :confused: , oops!!! Did I say something? :D Ok... ok... don't beat me, I'm leaving :p

[Miut]

They did have the odd earthquake as a pylon was damaged toreveal an in-fill of a temple of Akhenaten's demolished by his successors.. ;)

[Uatch-Khepheru]

They did have the odd earthquake as a pylon was damaged toreveal an in-fill of a temple of Akhenaten's demolished by his successors.. ;)

Also, there was the earthquake at the temple of Abu Simbel around year 20 of Ramses II's reign, when it was still being constructed. The giant face fell off and it took alot of effort to put the head back on (from what I remember reading about this), they didn't bother carving a new head, but simply filled it in with plaster and put it on the shoulders of the statue of Ramses, of which there are four I think. Come to think of it, it might have been a simple worker's accident that attributed to the collapse of the head, but it was on or another, pretty sure it was the earthquake, though.

[Kiya]

In addition to what Uatch-Khepheru said:

An earthquake in the 31st year of Ramesses' reign caused a great deal of damage to the Abu Simbel temple. The pillars of the Hypostyle Hall cracked and one collapsed. The right arm of the colossus to the right of the doorway fell off, while the upper part of the statue on the left crashed to the ground. Paser, viceroy of Kush, ordered the restoration of the temple and all but the upper part of the statue was restored. This was still lying where it had fallen when the temple was rediscovered. When the temple was moved to its present position in the 1960s, the statue was left "broken" as it was found.

[Jayhawk]

They did have the odd earthquake as a pylon was damaged toreveal an in-fill of a temple of Akhenaten's demolished by his successors.. An earthquake hit Cairo a week after I left in '92. While it didn't damage the monuments, the housing was less lucky.