Labourers still confused on 1.2

[jimkeir]

Hi,

I'm still having problems with labourers after patching to 1.2 and starting a new game. I don't think I'm doing anything wrong - maybe someone can help.

The latest is shown in the screenshot. I'd built a temple on an island and it wasn't getting dedicated (no statue). I had statues delivered directly to the island, then placed an Overseer's house nearby, then got desperate and filled the entire island with labourers. This is over the course of many game years of waiting, increasing worship complaints, other projects delayed because of busy overseers etc.

There are two overseers inside the temple, 12 statues in front of it and about 20 idle labourers within a stone's throw. It's been like this for about ten years. After I took this shot, I gave up and destroyed the temple and built another one on the mainland; the workers immediately leapt into action and carried a statue over to it. At least they managed to cross the river correctly, which is an improvement over the last game.

So what gives? I don't get much time for games and of the four scenarios I've played, all four have turned into very frustrating dodge-the-bug sessions :( . I've wasted over 20 hours now trying different combinations of destroying workers or buildings to try and get construction projects restarted. Destroying the project seems to work but what if it's a pyramid, that's a huge waste of time.

I think I'll give it one more go, and then COTN goes back to the shop and I'm back off to Age of Mythology :mad:

Thanks,
Jim

[EDIT]
Just in case it helps:
AthlonXP 2100, XP-Home SP2 (legal!), 1Gb RAM, 2Gb pagefile, NVidia 5900FX, Creative Audigy. All drivers are the latest available. NVidia drivers are recent beta, which I know isn't the version you recommend but I'd not expect the game AI to be affected by the video card. C: and F: (game drive) frequently defragged, plenty of space available.

[Karter]

Now you need stone-carvers to carve the statues... But, I suspect you have them already? correct?? if so....

Make sure you have your overseer (Oversee construction).... If your labours, were doing something else.... quarrying limestone, mining, whatever.. (especially quarrying limestone) it may take them awhile to get to the statues.... Because labours tend to finish up one task before they switch jobs....

It can be a bit frustrating, to get them to do what you want... when I have trouble like this, its usually when I have 2 overseers. sometimes I have to set both of them to the same task, before it actually gets done..

They dont need to be real nearby, they will venture pretty far to get the job done...


NOTE: IF its a Cult Temple....It needs a large statue..not small..
P.S. : Make sure you have the temple dedicated to a god... thats what I forget to do..Unless, its dedicated they wont build a statue on it...
I have sat an hour cussing at them, then realize it wasnt dedicated to a god

Hope it helps :(

[MarkDuffy]

I see blockage in the image & houses turned the wrong way. People will go where statues won't. Upload your game save.

Have you reinstalled the game?

You also don't have much food.

There is a laborer house in a very key location that hasn't gotten populated. This may be your blockage point. Also delete the house at 7 o'clock to this one. It's hard to see what is going on cuz we need a shot from directly above.

Build a road directly from the DOP to the temple elite road tiles & see what happens. Delete a lot of the houses around the unpopulated one. It looks like your barge landing is also blocked.

Don't place houses three deep.

You also need a bakery & some common shops on the island.

Lots of problems in this image, sorry!

The game works!

[MAX-1]

Make sure you have the temple dedicated to a god... thats what I forget to do..Unless, its dedicated they wont build a statue on it...
I have sat an hour cussing at them, then realize it wasnt dedicated to a god

Hope it helps :(
LOL, I've done that too.


jimkeir,
It seems af if you hve all the right parts of the puzzle in place. Do double check the temple if it is dedicated to a specific god.

[Keith]

I was just looking at the picture and noticed a few things, where were the common and luxury shops or even a bakery?

These laborers and overseers were probably spending all their time rowing across the river to get what they needed.

They like to shop for a while after you first place them and if they have to go long distances (like across a river) it could take extra time to accomplish.

I couldn't tell from the image, but did the other side of the river bank have a barge landing as well. Without one the stone can't be moved to the island.

The proper size stone, stone carver, and temple dedication mentioned above is also required.

[jimkeir]

Hi all,

Thanks for the replies.

MarkDuffy;

I know there are lots of problems in this image, it was the end result of a long series of trial and error and I'd basically written off the civilisation in order to work out why the temple wasn't being built. If was something I did, I need to learn not to do it again otherwise I'll just hit the same problem in the next game.

Ten minutes beforehand, there was nothing on the island apart from the overseer, the temple, the barge landing and a few farms. I just went nuts and sprayed workers all over the place when nothing else worked after a couple of hours, with a dozen *idle* workers on the other side of the river.

I know it would have been more efficient placing the temple on the mainland, I chose to put it on the island out of a sense of aesthetics. It's not so far away that people couldn't get to it, and I'd originally planned to put a couple of nobles' houses on the island later on.

I'd already tried putting 4, then 8 labourers' houses on the island with no success and at that point, I don't think anything was blocked. The unpopulated labourer's house is simply because I placed loads of them all at the same time and they're not all full yet, it takes a while for them to turn up.

No, I haven't re-installed the game.

It looks like I did block the drop-off point with the labourers' houses. Previously, the houses in front of the temple didn't exist so there was only one square of grass between it and the statues. I've seen them dragging stuff over much longer distances of unpaved surface than that so I didn't think it was a problem. Worth a try, though.

Karter;

The temple was dedicated to Osiris, and the game knew because two overseers were inside the temple every day for years after it was constructed. It was also flagged as 'waiting for a statue'.

A stone carver was available, but was irrelevant because the statue never arrived at the temple. He always turned up immediately to other construction projects.

Before I put labourers all over the island, there were three teams (i.e. 12) on the mainland, all currently idle. However, other construction projects progressed nicely when I started them, including other temples, obelisks etc.

Keith;

It wasn't a cult temple, so a small statue should have been enough. Twelve of them were sat right in front of the temple, and another 30-odd were available on the other side of the river. There was also a barge landing over there, and when I destroyed this temple and built an identical one on the other side, one of the statues on the island was carried over to it immediately.

The other side of the river is just out of view, it's quite narrow. I don't think it was lack of time, because I sat and watched the entire encampment for a while and 80% of the workers were always standing idle, "deciding what to do". The others were shopping. There were also idle workers and a supply of statues on the other bank.

I'd been round all of the workers using the 'next' button, and none of them were thinking about statues so it wasn't the case that, say, three workers in a team were ready and the other was shopping. They were simply unaware as a group that the temple needed a statue, even though there were two overseers on the job.

So...
As I said, I destroyed this temple and carried on when the new one worked. If I've still got an old auto-save around, I'll go back and try deleting some of the houses blocking the dropoff point, then creating a one-square road between it and the temple, then re-dedicating the temple. Maybe undedicating it then re-dedicating it will free something up. If that doesn't work I'll upload a save.

If it does turn out to be just me doing something dim, fair enough but I really think I'd already tried everything reasonable.

Thanks for your suggestions, all are welcome. I'll try them out as soon as I get a chance.

Jim.

[Amenirdis]

If you still have an old save, maybe you could post it here? It may help finding out where the problem may lie.

[morgan]

Hi,

I had a very similar problem regarding temple dedication and basalt blocks needing to cross a river.

On the mainland I had:
-2 overseers set to construction
-about 12 laborers
-a stonecarver
-both large and small basaltblocks on different cargo dropoff points
-and 2 barge landings with local barges

On the island I had:

- a temple (not cult) set to be dedicated
- 2 barge landings with local barges

The overseers would frequently visit the temple and were flagged as "overseeing temple dedication" or "temple statue construction" or some such thing. No laborers would ever react though, neither did there appear a sled under the basalt blocks.

After a while I imported some small basalt blocks directly to the island, but no reaction.

Finally I gave up, cancelled the dedication, build a new temple on the mainland and dedicated that. Everything worked fine. Other construction projects also worked fine.

After seeing jimkeir's similar report, I think it's a bug.

p.s. I have the UK version patched to 1.2

[jimkeir]

Hi,

Same here, Morgan - UK 1.1 release patched to 1.2 . I notice there's another very similar thread over here (http://www.tiltedmill.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5790) (the one at the end); temple built on an island, nothing happens, destroy and rebuild on the mainland and all is well. Interestingly, BartDude's homepage is in the UK so that's three reports of the same problem in the same release.

Perhaps if you've got a saved game handy you could upload it? I *may* have mine still but I'm not sure. I don't have a net connection at home so I'll need to check tonight; if I've got one, I'll upload it tomorrow.

Cheers,
Jim

[morgan]

"Perhaps if you've got a saved game handy you could upload it?" JK

Nope, just like you I'm at work right now and unconnected at home. I'll try to remember to bring the savegame tomorrow.

Cheers,
Morgan

[MarkDuffy]

Hmmmm

I should have said that the American version works! :D

The difference between me & other posters is that I actually READ what a poster sez. I take the poster at his word & if he sez he has two Overseers in the temple, he does, Jim. If he sez he has completed temples previously, then I assume he has!

I guess this is where my assistance stops, Jim. Your save on my American version won't tell us ANYTHING (perhaps).

Unless, when I load your save, I get the same problem w/o doing anything. That would mean something. Then, if I get it to work by changing something.

It doesn't have to be an old save, by the way. I can delete your NEW laborers too!

Blockage was what stuck out at me. It could be something else, or your game is REALLY broken. You should be able to complete a temple anywhere you wish.

Awaiting your upload...

We, together, could put this UK thinge to bed. If I get your temple dedicated & you cannot reproduce it on your version

We blame Tony! (We ALWAYS blame our leaders! :cool: )

Cheers back@ya

[jimkeir]

Hi,

I've uploaded a save game. It's from after I filled the island with labourers, but before I destroyed and rebuilt the temple. A new temple has just been completed on the mainland, the one surrounded by a low hedge, and that should get dedicated immediately. There's also another one waiting on the other island at the edge of the map, that should also get dedicated.

You'll be able to see that I've completed plenty of other projects on the mainland; I know I'm short of food and people are unhappy with worship opportunities, but as I said I'd got to the point of mainly ignoring the rest of the game.

Here's what I tried last night:

- Destroy some houses and build a road between the dropoff point and the temple : No change
- Build another temple on the mainland : OK
- Build another temple on a different island : OK
- Build another temple on the same island in a different place, after clearing loads of houses : OK

At this point I wondered if it was something to do with the indestructible palm-tree in the temple's doorway, after what you said about people going places that statues couldn't. So, I destroyed the temple and rebuilt it *in exactly the same place* and it got dedicated OK. So it really looks like it's just that particular incarnation of the temple.

Just a thought here. I think I read that the US 1.1 patch fixed the problem with hospitals and temples always reporting '0 served, no demand'. This was still in the UK retail 1.1 release, but was fixed in 1.2. If the patches aren't in sync I wonder if it's possible something's been missed out in the UK version? I *definitely* started this game after patching to 1.2, I assume you can tell that from the savegame.

Two more things, not really related:
- If it's been UK-localised, why does it still refer to 'laborers'? :p
- Can you make the sequel as "Children of the Ganges", please? Indian history's much richer than people give it credit for.

Cheers,
Jim

[morgan]

Well....if it's a bug it's not a very serious one apparently.

I'll try what you did & report back later.

[Amenirdis]

Okay, I downloaded and tried your savegame. It's definitely not a bug. It's that tree that blocks the temple's entrance.
As you can see in the pic I attached, I deleted your temple and built another one on the same spot but turned 90 degrees and made sure (with a road in that case) that the entrance is accessible. And sure enough, after a while the statue was brought to the temple. :)

Oh, I also added some common shops on the island so that the people there have an easier access the wares, but that should not have made any difference building-wise.

[jimkeir]

Hi,

Thanks for trying it. However, I already tried rebuilding the temple with the *same* orientation - that is, with the tree in the doorway - and that worked too. If the tree was the problem, it would have failed the second time too, no?

I thought that was it too (sound of forehead being slapped) but then it went and *worked*, darn it :)

Cheers,
Jim

[Amenirdis]

You're welcome.

Really? It worked? Wow... that's really weird. :eek: Makes you really wonder why it didn't work in the first place then.
Oh well... at least it works now. :rolleyes: :)

Enjoy!

Edit: I tried it again, and sure enough, this time it worked for me, too. I will load up the save game again, and try to find out if there's another reason behind it after all.

[jimkeir]

Hi,

Yep, that's what I thought :D I'd really like to see a final answer for it, though. A temple's not a huge deal but the the last game blocked a cult temple and the one before that blocked a pyramid. Different reasons, granted, but the solution's always been "<shrug> destroy and rebuild". Sounds very like the standard solution for Windows errors a few years ago.

Everything works perfectly apart from complex construction. How long do you wait before deciding the game's forgotten about a project, and destroy it? What if it's a pyramid that's taken decades to build?

I'd already passed the problem in this game. I just don't want to face it again in the next. If it's a bug then let's try and get it fixed; if it's me doing something stupid (like putting trees in doorways) then I need to learn not to.

Pedantic, I know :D Thanks for your help, I *really* want to get on with CoTN but hitting construction bugs/curiosities in in every game I play is turning it into a bit of a chore.

Cheers,
Jim
(Long-time unix sysadmin and software release manager...)

[Amenirdis]

I'd really like to see a final answer for it, though. A temple's not a huge deal but the the last game blocked a cult temple and the one before that blocked a pyramid. Different reasons, granted, but the solution's always been "<shrug> destroy and rebuild". No kidding? :eek:
Wow... I consider myself veeeery lucky now. I never stumbled upon any such problems - yet. *fingers crossed* ;)
But I understand that it can get a bit frustrating with time if it happens again and again. I will continue to find out if there's a logical reason behind this beaviour. :)

Everything works perfectly apart from complex construction. How long do you wait before deciding the game's forgotten about a project, and destroy it? What if it's a pyramid that's taken decades to build?
Heh, good question. I know I wouldn't dare to destroy a pyramid for a long, long time. :D


I just don't want to face it again in the next. If it's a bug then let's try and get it fixed; if it's me doing something stupid (like putting trees in doorways) then I need to learn not to.

*grins* I guess that's understandable. And maybe with the help of several forum members looking at your savegame we may find out if it's a bug or something else.


Pedantic, I know :D
*laughs* I can be pedantic myself sometimes. So, don't worry. :D ;)

Anyway, I will keep on trying to find out what the problem might be. It would be interesting to know, if there are any similarities between the different construction obstacles you seem to encounter.

Again, you're very welcome. :)

[vic_4]

May be this is far fetched, but in my experience the only time I could not complete a temple was when the statuewhich was dedicated to it was blocked, sorebuilding would activate a new one and everything would work. I could make the hypothesis that you either blocked or deleted a drop off.

[Amenirdis]

Nope. The statues themselves were not blocked. At least, I didn't notice anything like that.
I tried different things now, but the only solution does seem to be deleting the building and rebuild it again.

But I wonder... Jim, you wrote that it also happens with pyramids etc. When it happened, were they also some sort of blocked? Or were those buildings freely accessible from every direction?
It still doesn't make sense to me why it works sometimes and other times not. :( :confused: :confused:

[jimkeir]

Hi,

The pyramid was a different problem - there's an older thread about that one. It seems to have been a known bug with labourers crossing the river. One limestone block refused to cross. The workers turned up every day for years, went into the barge landing, walked into the wall all day, then went home. Destroying and rebuilding the barge landing and/or workers didn't fix it. They'd drag it to a *new* barge landing, go inside, walk into the wall all day.

I didn't even need the pyramid, I'd already completed the scenario. I just played on because I really *wanted* to see it complete. Obviously large amounts of materials had already crossed the river successfully, it was just this one that got stuck but that was enough.

So the conclusion was to scrap the pyramid because the very last block, which was for some reason fetched from the other side of the river even though hundreds were available on the *right* side of the river, wouldn't cross and I couldn't tell anyone to try a different one.

Apparently this was fixed in 1.2 . The current game is my first started in 1.2, and - hey, look! - construction grinds to a halt...

The one with the cult temple seemed similar to this one. Large statues available, other projects completed no problem (including large statues, non-temple-related), overseers in place, nothing happening. I'd tried to build the cult temple really early on, so the investment in bricks was quite large and I wasn't willing to delete it. Scrapped the game instead.

Sorry, rant over :( end of a long day...

Thanks,
Jim

[Bartdude]

since i was mentioned i've uploaded my save game for ne1 to tinker with. at this point i've already made my statues etc but if some1 wants to try and build another, or see if they can get the fine limestone from the other bank (which i was also unable to get across the river) then be my guest :)
ah another prob i had on this map was with the bricklayers, i was waiting for three soldiers tent to be made but the bricklayers picked up bricks then just stood outside the brickmakers! i resolved the issue by deleting the three tents after reading another thread on this forum but not b4 i had lost valuable prestige point's for not having a tomb ready for pharoh :(

for the record i'm also on ver 1.2, i updated b4 i started to play.

sys: p4c 2.8 ht enabled @800fsb, 1 gig pc3200 ddr and aopen aeolus fx5900

[MarkDuffy]

Oh Geeeeeeez, I entirely forgot about this thread while deleting soldiers/laborers & making villagers!

So sorry, Jim, but I see you have solved it yourself! And Amenirdis has also come to assist!

Anyway, I am downloading your save on dialup & should be finished sometime next year...

[MarkDuffy]

Well Jim, I've done my thing with your save. Upon loading nothing happened with your temple. Then I noticed that there were two other temples. Geez. Ok, I waited until those got statues, which were waaay delayed cuz your Overseers keep going to the problem temple. Anyway, the problem temple never got a statue. Same result as you.

Reloading your save & rebuilding worked, as everyone knows. I also kept deleting & rebuilding the temple just cuz. 3rd, 4th & 5th time it still got a statue.

I went back to the save again & thought about triggers. I first closed down the WM site that you were importing from. Then deleted all of your zillion statues & the DOPs they were in. Zero statues on the map. Then placed a dedicated DOP for statues next to your problem temple & began to import again. Still no go.

I also tried to rededicate your temple, change Overseers to quary granite to ALSO reset their triggers. Still no go.

Now for the part that will upset the hell outta you.

I am currently going through the missions in order. I am on Nubt now. I started Abu quick&dirty. Goal? Just to see if I can dedicate a temple at the very same place on the first try.

Sorry, but I could:

CLARIFICATION: My Abu came from my scenario option. I did not replay from your save via the info button.

[imhotep3147]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned already (I skimmed the last few posts) but I do recall problems with people placing the DOP too close to whatever project they were trying to build. I remember it in relation to pyramids more than any other construction projects though. Could this be part of the problem?

[MAX-1]

Just chimeing in here.

The only time that I had trouble with completeing a temple dedication was when the bassalt statue was lost in transport. Ya know, where the laborers just up and stop pulling it all the way to it's destination. The only work around I found was to demolish and rebuild. :eek:

[MarkDuffy]

Jim had at least three DOPs all over the map with statues. I had to delete a lot of his DOPs just to get rid of all his statues. There were two that had a bunch of stuff in them & clicking on the DOPs did not show statues, only the other four types of items. Statues still showed in the Resource Report, so I had to delete them, to get rid of ALL statues as per the RR.

(This is a normal thingie with the game. You can only tell a statue is there, when it has been activated & appears on a sled. Then the laborers come later to do the hauling.)

In most of my rebuilding tests, the statues came from these far away DOPs. The only time I got the DOP shown in Jim's image to supply the statue was after I deleted every DOP with statues EXCEPT for that one.

Bite the bullet & reinstall the game, Jim. This is my only suggestion, besides blaming Tony (sorry). I have not had the problems I have read on this forum (yet). It really sucks when you can't trust the game to function properly. Perhaps it is the UK version. Don't know.

EDIT: You should be able to copy your save folder to a new location, rename it before reinstalling it & put it back to save your saves.

REEDIT: I did have one weird situation, but it was JUST a pain, cuz it resolved itself:

http://www.tiltedmill.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5413