Do free demos ever sell games?

[Innovan]

There's huge backlogs to download free demos on the download sites. But how often are these demos ever converted into actual game sales?

People who are going to buy a title just go out and buy it. They (rightly) see time spent with a braindead demo version of a game as a waste of time.

People who want to get just a taste of a game download the demo, play it for a while, and having satisfied themselves, never bother to actually buy the game.

And people with $3,000 computers who then claim to have no money and refuse to rake leaves, babysit, or otherwise work to raise the cash... just play the free demo.

Is there any way to find out how many systems that buy the game had the demo installed beforehand? Maybe a leftover file from the demo left in the same game directory, or something left in the registry that is detected and communicated back when you check to see if there are any updates or patches on-line.

If TM does decide to release a demo they may want to consider this information mining of their customer conversion rates. As long as they stay in their same part of registry I would feel comfortable with this.

[Yahya]

Not me. I am absolutely not interested in anyone 'checking' to see if I have played anything, particularly a demo.

This runs along the same lines as adware and spyware, which frankly, should carry prison terms. :)

[Enigmatic_Sphinx]

I agree strongly with you Yahya. It's enough that many demos have that timed pop-up to remind you to buy.

Innovan - But how often are these demos ever converted into actual game sales?Yes, Innovan, demos do help sell product. From a marketing perspective I've seen success, tracked from the annoying pop-up reminder to buy.

People who want to get just a taste of a game download the demo, play it for a while, and having satisfied themselves, never bother to actually buy the game.
IMHO, many folks want to see for themselves whether the game is worth buying when they download a demo. Demos don't supply the full features of a full game so if a downloader enjoys the demo they'll want to buy to experience the full gamut. And be able to patch, upgrade and join in on any mods or other post-purchase perks exist.

Personally, if a demo exists for a game I'm not sure about I'll definitely dl it and try it out. If I like the demo I'll buy it. Without a demo it would take a lot of convincing for me to buy - convincing that I may not take the time to receive.

[NanaBanana]

I don't want anyone hacking my computer to see if I have played a demo. I rarely download demos.

IF I do, it's either:
A. because I'm bored.
B. Because someone suggested the game or
C. I just wanted to check it out.

I haven't purchase any games because of a demo. I know what I like, and if I see it in a store, I will buy it if I can afford to spend that much on frivolities. :)

I tried a few demos recommended to me by fellow CBers, but didn't always like the games. Age of Mythology looked like a great game as I enjoyed Zeus/Poseidon and Age of Empires I & II. However, even though I enjoyed the game, it took me less than a week to finish the game, and only 3 days to do the expansion. I felt ripped off. If I spend that much on a game, I want it to take longer than that. I still play it, but it takes me less time to complete with every play. :mad:

One day, maybe I will reload Pharaoh/Cleopatra and try to finish it. :D

[claudio]

i play deffinitely first the demo then i had some bad expirience:
anno 1503

since then i ll ever first play the demo and watch the public comment on a game befor i buy it

[Bugsy]

I finished Pharaoh, but have not finished Cleopatra, although my save files are backed up on another cd, so I dont' have to restart each time I install and uninstall it to make room, or lose it in a crash. 30GB hard drive is too small I am finding with each new game that comes out. lol

For demos, I need to use them more. I'll download a small-ish demo in a heartbeat. I have DSL. But the larger ones that take an hour even on DSL, I will probably never bother with. I'll decide from the site and the box if I want it. I did that with Civ 3, and got burnt. I should have played the demo. But it was somewhere in the 200MB neighborhood. I'm not that patient, and can't just leave it running either. Kids and cats and running computers do not mix. lol

Demos help me decide one thing, do I like it enough to buy it? Will it hold my attention? Is the demo too easy? For RPGs and CBs, do I like the fighting system? I don't play first person shooters. Period. I don't like them because I suck at them. lol I don't mind the gore. Doesn't phase me. But I stink at them, and so they are not fun for me. I don't play fast. I play slow, explore every single nook and cranny as I go. I'm very picky about RTS, CBers, and RPGs in that aspect. If it rushes me, it's gone. If I "die" all the time, it's gone, and I won't buy it. I don't like tactical combat, really. So if the demo focuses on those a lot, I won't buy the game unless I find that system fun or easy to use.

Most games, I pick up years after they have come out, in the "cheap" section. It's how I got Caesar 3. (I already had one and 2) And Pharaoh, Zeus, and Cleopatra. I came very late into those games. Poseidon, was when I learned Impressions was gone. I was looking for it, after finishing Zeus.

So I think the coin most often with demos, will show a half and half ratio, of those it helped buy, and those who did not buy it. A demo on the consumer's end is about finding out if it's "your" kind of game, and if you want to spend the cash to buy it. It does promote sales, because it helps with the word of mouth. Hey man, try this demo! The person plays the demo, since no one can turn down the word FREE, and ideally, they fall in lust with the game, and just HAVE To have It. People buy games for many reasons, and a demo helps them decide that. I think it helps reach more people, but one has to expect half of those to not buy it, as it just isn't their kind of game, for a million possible reasons.

[angelisis]

Demo's for me are always my first taste of the game. here in aussie land games are not cheap, i have already found out the CotN will no doubt be around the 90-100 dollar mark.
although i will not bother with a demo this time around (I am quite willing to sepnd the 100 bucks for this game...no doubt in my mind) I have always searched for a demo before buying, pharoah, zues, empire earth, age of mythology and ceaser I II III are all demo's i have down loaded just to name a few.
Just from the demo i have purchased these games, for me it has alot to do with the price that i have to pay.
but really it is all marketing and a way to get the product out there. i am not even sure that i would have ever come acroos my first ever cb game (ceaser)
if i did not stumble across a demo of it on the internet. i am sure the people that actually buy the game really outways the ones just play the demo . these games are so addictive there is only somuch you can do with only an hour of game play or a cppl of levels.
plus the fact there are alot of kids, adults out there that do not even have the internet for whatever reason, that will buy the game just cause it is about something they like, looks cool, is on sale...etc etc

[Innovan]

Hmm. "Spyware" conventionally means something that monitors what web pages you go to as you browse to other pages. I'll even accept "looking at other cookies than your own to see what other sites you've visited" --which all browsers have prevented for over six years now.

But a manufactorer looking at their own entries in the product registry to see what other versions of the same product have been installed previously? You're both misusing the technological term, which applies to web browser monitoring, not product installations. And you're being highly amusing by getting upset over the registry being used correctly, which is to say by passing on versioning information to the manufactorer the few times you update the product.

You're going to send the registry version info back only the once or twice you actually do an on-line update --and you need to do that or you'll get a big mess that crashes from applying the wrong patch version to the software in the update, particularly with all the internationalization versions of the game. Seeing if one of the previous versions was your own demo version of the game is legit, particuarly if incompatibilities with the demo creep up later on. By this not-very-techno-savvy definition, every patch is now "spyware". Uh, not really.

But this is just my idea. I'm sure TM won't touch it with a ten foot pole.

[Eddy]

They have sold games, and more importantly, not sold games to me. Another poster mentioned Civ3, and well, I also was burned by that dog of a game. I have the special tin next to my front door so it barks at strangers. I played some demos and if I see the game in the bargain bin I'll buy it. I've got Emperor on my watchlist. I do not want makers setting up their games to "call home" when I am playing and in fact, I get very suspicious of any program calling home that doesn't need to. Considering how much spyware is out there, a company would get a major black eye if they tried this.

[mouse]

Spyware is anything that reports your activities without your permission if it'a automatic updater or anything else.

Personally I download demos of games I might be interested in but by companies whose games I've never played before. Wish I had downloaded the demo for CivIII since it was an awful game. As to how many of those games I buy it depends on if I liked what I saw in the demo so a poorly done demo would very likely keep me from buying a game. If a company put a hidden file on my computer I would never buy their software. So in my case a demo may or may not get me to buy the game.

BTW the demo for C III hooked me and I bought the game on release date :D

[Innovan]

i play deffinitely first the demo then i had some bad expirience:
anno 1503

Oh sheesh, I completely agree with you there. I'm a big Klaus Teuber fan, so when he made the board game version (http://boardgamegeek.com/game/8166) of Anno 1503 last year I ordered the computer game sight unseen off of amazon --it was only $20. Then just out of curiousity I downloaded the Anno 1503 demo. It was so sucky --it was like a 1980 Colecovision game --I went back and immediately cancelled my order before it shipped. All within two hours.

The following demos talked me out of buying the game and only showed how boring and not very well thought out the gameplay was:
Anno 1503
Medieval Lords
Trade Empires
Tropico
Tropico 2: Pirates Cove
Settlers 3 (never looked at the series since)
Europa Universalis

It's interesting to see how Klaus Teuber is marketting his games with the Professor Easy (http://www.profeasy.de/de/index.php?page=spiele.html) tutorials walking people through a turn and explaining things. Does a very good job, too.

[Son of Moose]

This has been an extremely interesting debate that has raged while I was sleeping ... :D

Enigmatic Sphinx:

IMHO, many folks want to see for themselves whether the game is worth buying when they download a demo. Demos don't supply the full features of a full game so if a downloader enjoys the demo they'll want to buy to experience the full gamut.

This is indeed true from my perspective. A couple of demos have actually persuaded me to buy games that I possibly would never have considered buying. C and C: Generals readily comes to mind --- as I am not generally a fan of modern warfare type games. I rather prefer the ancient world --- as in AOE and the classic CB series!! :D However, I also wanted to"experience the full gamut" offered by this game. I am actually very glad that I did indeed buy it!! :D

However, as said elsewhere, a poorly made demo can be extremely counterproductive and actually scare away potential buyers. :eek: Therefore the demo is DEFINITELY NOT a loose extra for the devs to throw together after their game has gone gold!! :o

[tobing]

... The following demos talked me out of buying the game and only showed how boring and not very well thought out the gameplay was:
Anno 1503
Medieval Lords
Trade Empires
Tropico
Tropico 2: Pirates Cove
Settlers 3 (never looked at the series since)
Europa Universalis
...
I agree with most of the list, except Tropico which is an excellent game, because of the really deep gameplay in there. Maybe you should give it a try, in germany it is cheap in the bargain bin anyway. If you want to get it, get the Gold-Version containing the Addon...

[NeilV]

I will only normally download demos of games i am already intrested in if i am not sure i wont wast my time but may like some others pick it up from when i can get i cheep then if no good not a Lot of money wasted. so demos don,t really sell me games it just helps to confirm ones I want. But i have played Demos and thought not bad got the game and thought why did I buy this.

[Janmeryet]

Being relatively new to the gaming scene, I've only ever downloaded one demo, which was for Emperor RotMK, which I then bought and enjoyed. So I guess I'd be happy enough to base further decisions on demos, too.

[Mau]

I downloaded the Caesar III demo years ago in college. I'd never played anything but Doom and the original SimCity (and they were both copies, I never had pocket money so didn't own a single original game). I found the CIII demo one day and was intrigued by the description, as my mother's a teacher and we grew up surrounded by children's history books. Once i got my first job I bought CIII and have since bought Pharaoh, Cleopatra, Zeus, Poseidon and Emperor, as has my sister. In our case, that single demo sold two copies of all the games in the range. I'd say that's a pretty good argument for demos : )

[Keith]

If I'm not sure if a game is the sort of thing I want I will look for a demo. If there is no demo the chances that I will buy that game goes way down. However, on games I'm very interested in a demo is not necessary.

[Yahya]

Lack of a demo has never stopped me from buying a game, but a bad one has stopped me many times.

[Anguille]

I usually buy games by reading about them, looking at the website, looking in the forums and so. I've only played a couple of demos. This happens for games i am not sure.

Space Empires 4: despite being a great game the demo didn't appeal enough to me and didn't buy the game...i prefer to wait for SE5

Spartan & Gates of Troy: i was very interested in the topic (old Greece) but the gameplay didn't convince me. After playing the demo, i decided to buy the game and i haven't regretted it since (it's one of my fav strategy games now).

In that case, the demo helped selling more copies of the game. It's also usefull for small companies who sell mainly over internet.

[Jenisis]

The samples in the grocery store..
or,

The little sliver of sausage or cheese from the Hickory Farms store in the mall. If its something you normally like a demo may be just what you need to help you decide, but if you don't really like sausage to begin with, no matter how tasty the sample may be, chances are slim that you will buy it.
or,

A really cheap way to keep my 14 year old amused. Often a demo is about all the time he wants to spend on any given game, but he wants to spend that much time on EVERY game that has ever been released... (honestly you all would be shocked if you could see how many demos are currently installed, can you say "time to format") :eek:

[Son of Moose]

Jenisis:

Often a demo is about all the time he wants to spend on any given game, but he wants to spend that much time on EVERY game that has ever been released... (honestly you all would be shocked if you could see how many demos are currently installed, can you say "time to format")

He must certainly have a fair amount of knowledge about a great number of games. :) This knowledge could actually be very useful if he is interested in pursuing a career in the pc gaming industry. :D After all, there are probably not that many people who can claim to have actually played most of the pc games that have been released over the past couple of years. ;)

[Anubis]

I usually download allot of demos out of curiosity, and having a CABLE modem!
After playing most demos, I decide the game isn't worth it and I saved myself $40 - $50. So do demos help the consumer or the publisher, guess it depends on how you look at it.

[Dnisis]

I have bought many games because the demo was so good. On the other hand, there are many games that I didn't buy because of the demo. If I am familiar with the company and the game sounds good, I buy without the demo. If I am unfamiliar with a company or have not liked their games, I always want a demo first.

[Kraken]

I only download demos if I'm on the fence about a game. I usually base my purchase decisions on forum feedback at certain websites. I don't preorder games or buy them until they've been out for a couple of weeks so that I can get this feedback. I don't understand people's compulsion to get a game on Day One. I can see preordering this one to get the bonus disk and possibly save a few bucks, but ordinarily the incentive is to wait.

Of the few demos that I've downloaded, more have convinced me not to buy a game than the other way around. I know some people won't buy without seeing a demo first. For the publishers, these influences probably just about cancel out.

[gem1n100]

I like to be able to try out a game before I buy it because I don't want to spend money on a game I wll not like. For one reason, I don't trust anyone elses opinion on games or movies because they might not like something that I think is great. And the other way around. So yes I think that demos have alot of influence on whether or not I buy a game.

[dreamsoftwilight]

I downloaded the Pharaoh demo before I bought the game. I played the demo untill I ran out of free stuff to play, then borrowed the $40 from my mom to buy it. lol

[Yahya]

dreamsoftwilight:

You make an excellent point. I actually (finally this year) bought the Empires collection due to the pharaoh demo on my C3 disk. So there is one.

The feeling had be revived from having purchased Emperor in the spring (I'm a wicked late bloomer).

Going to HG forums lead me to CotN forums, so eventually the Devs will get their cash... :D

[Keith]

As I understand it VUG is the only one getting the "cash" now.

Also, many of these games are quietly being closed out and if you need a new copy of the game now would be a good time to pick one up before they become harder to find. This includes the Great Empires Collection 2, the one with all the games save for Emperor.

The individual games are nearly impossible to find in new condition. Although I did recently see a jewel case version of Pharaoh and Cleopatra still available from VUG. These are probably limited supply.
http://members.aol.com/dheitm8612/horus2.gif
Keith Heitmann (mailto:dheitm8612@aol.com) a.k.a Nuthin-in-khamun
Listen to the music of the CityBuilders while online:
Caesar III Music Player (http://www.geocities.com/kheitmann1/C3Player.htm)•Pharaoh Music Jukebox (http://members.aol.com/dheitm8612/java/pharaoh.htm)•Zeus Music Jukebox (http://members.aol.com/dheitm8612/java/Zeus.htm)•Emperor's Music Box (http://members.aol.com/dheitm8612/java/erotmk.htm)•Children of the Nile Musicbox (http://members.aol.com/dheitm8612/java/cotn/cotn.htm)•
Children of the Nile & Quiz (http://panzerblitz.proboards9.com/index.cgi#test)

[tobing]

...Also, many of these games are quietly being closed out and if you need a new copy of the game now would be a good time to pick one up before they become harder to find. This includes the Great Empires Collection 2, the one with all the games save for Emperor.

True! But wasn't it the Great Empires collection 2 that actually contains Emperor? Well, I can only say that for the german version, Emperor is part of the 'Grosse Imperien 2' collection. During this year all the games have been available as cover versions of the PCGames magazine, so I think it will be harder to get the games once the collection runs out...

[MaxxQ]

My first post in these forums...registered so's I could respond in this thread.

A demo got me into PC gaming. In 1998, a neighbor brought over her husband's demo disc from a recent Maximum PC magazine (this was shortly after they changed from Boot magazine). The demo was for the original Freespace. I fell in love with that game, even though it ran pretty crappy on my 133mhz machine. The next demo to hook me was for Deus Ex, then Homeworld. The Homeworld install disc also had a couple demos on it, including one called Pharoah :D Up until my comp died on me (2 months ago), I would play Pharoah for a few days at a time. I still haven't finished it completely because I'm something of a slow gamer...

Up until Deus Ex, all I played were space sims - Freespace 1 and 2, Independence War, one of the Wing Commander games (Prophecy, I think...ended up not playing much because I didn't like how it played compared to Freespace), and so on. Deus Ex made me realize that some of the other genres weren't so bad and so I started playing more demos. I now base my buying decisions on whether I liked playing a demo or not. Demos have convinced me to buy games in genres I normally don't play, such as Unreal 2, Tron 2.0, Far Cry, both NOLF games, Crimson Skies, Grim Fandango, and so on. Many others have convinced me NOT to buy a game - XIII, AoE (any of them), C&C (in all its manifestations), and many others. Most games I've bought without playing a demo, due to impulse buying, or bargain-bin shopping, I have ended up being disappointed with and usually trade in for something better.

With CotN, I'm kinda on the fence as to whether I want to play a demo first or not. I know a healthy portion of the dev team are from Impressions, but with such a big change in the gameplay...well, let's say I'm really looking forward to the game, but would really like a demo to try out, preferably on a magazine disc since my comp's down with a toasted mobo and I'm stuck using my wife's dial-up AOL on her comp :p

Anyway...glad to be here and hopefully, after tax return time, I can be back up on MY comp and can post here more often.

[Keith]

Tron 2.0 (http://www.tron20.net/), not a bad FPS game. I haven't played my copy in a while. Dave Arnspiger from Disney contacted me and sent me a copy of the game for my opinion. He and I were acquantances from the days when they put out "Stunt Island" and I created a few tutorials on how to create scenes for the Stunt Island newsletter. They did a good job of re-creating the world of Tron in Tron 2.0. It felt and looked just like the movie, except the story of the game takes place after the story of the movie.

[Keith]

True! But wasn't it the Great Empires collection 2 that actually contains Emperor? Well, I can only say that for the german version, Emperor is part of the 'Grosse Imperien 2' collection. During this year all the games have been available as cover versions of the PCGames magazine, so I think it will be harder to get the games once the collection runs out...
No, just Caesar III, Pharaoh/Cleo, Zeus/ Poseidon.

The package that has them all is the lesser known and newer "The Biggest Creators of Empires" package, which includes Emperor.

[MaxxQ]

Tron 2.0 (http://www.tron20.net/), not a bad FPS game. I haven't played my copy in a while. Dave Arnspiger from Disney contacted me and sent me a copy of the game for my opinion. He and I were acquantances from the days when they put out "Stunt Island" and I created a few tutorials on how to create scenes for the Stunt Island newsletter. They did a good job of re-creating the world of Tron in Tron 2.0. It felt and looked just like the movie, except the story of the game takes place after the story of the movie.

Yeah...I liked it so much, I played it a second time after finishing the first run-through. First time I ever did that with a game...

[Keith]

Tron 2.0 has some excellent puzzles. Took me a little while to find my way off the transport and to get through the disc tank room with the collapsing floor. The only part I could have done with less of was the light cycle race segments. It kind of took you out of the environment created by the FPS portion of the game and put you back into a arcade game environment.

Some sections took me dozens of tries to get through like the section where the virus was wiping the "disk" and you had to fight your way out before it caught up with you.

[buckylarue]

First game I ever played all the way through more than once was Grim Fandango. That was a really enganging game, and I got totally involved and attached to the characters and felt so happy for their success at the end! In fact, I've still got it installed on what is now my 3rd or 4th computer since it came out. I also bought the music CD that they sold from it; that game's music was as immersive and evocative as the Pharaoh/CotN music...

[Jacquou Le]

I agree with most of the list, except Tropico which is an excellent game, because of the really deep gameplay in there. Maybe you should give it a try, in germany it is cheap in the bargain bin anyway. If you want to get it, get the Gold-Version containing the Addon...


Yup, I agree with tobing. Tropico (1) and Tropico 2: Pirate Cove are excellent games. For me, they're truly city-building games, but in different concepts. They're pretty cheap right now, I've seen in some stores in US at $19.99 or lower (Tropico Master Player; 3 games in 1 box). Give it a try, it's worth to buy and play.

[Keith]

I guess we should move this over to the Outside World section, because we've drifted off-topic for this section. :)

[NanaBanana]

I guess we should move this over to the Outside World section, because we've drifted off-topic for this section. :)

Hmmm.. one wonders who led the crowd astray? ;)

<takes the wheel and steers back to topic> :D

I remember on demo I did like.. at least part of it. It was something to do with LotR. Not the hobbit.. I hated that one. Too hard to figure out.

The one I am talking about had 2 partial "scenarios". One was Legalos and the elves going thru the forest. That one was fun. If anyone knows which game that is, send me a PM, Please!!

It's not often I find a game I really like outside the CB realm. It's been a long time since I found a good RPG.

[Kraken]

Tropico 2 was, in some ways, my favorite citybuilding game. The reinforcing dynamic between raiding and the city...the economy, driven by putting money in the walkers' pockets...the walkers themselves, with their demand bars and character development attributes...the strategic tradeoffs between fear and order...the ability to raise the dead as uncomplaining slaves...the lighthearted overall touch, and the great music...all of these together made it a real classic, even better than the original Tropico. It wasn't without flaws, of course, but I enjoyed it thoroughly and still have it installed.

[Sparky]

For massively hyped games like GTA:SA or Half-life 2, I dare say a demo makes very little difference. People will buy it anyway. But for games that receive little to no hype demos are invaluable. A good demo will get on magazine coverdisks and be played by hundreds of thousands. For a game like CoTN it'll probably be most people's first introduction to the title and the primary means of building awareness.

[Yahya]

As I understand it VUG is the only one getting the "cash" now.
I'm sure you're right. That was why I put the emphasis on their. Once I get CotN (although since I preordered, the transactions have probably all taken place), TM will be paid.

Sorry for being so late on the others, TM!

[child of Thor]

The Demo is the only way most paying users can test to see if the game is all its been hyped up to be. And as is the trend these days, when no Demo is available, i get a little suspicious - i wont buy the game untill i've heard some reports from gamers on some forums, i've been burnt a few times too many.

But as people have been saying it cuts both ways - a bad demo i would imagine can hurt sales. So if its going to be done, make it a darn good one.

[Innovan]

The vast majority of people buy entertainment titles without playing a demo or even reading a review. Is anyone playing a demo of San Andreas, or Halo2, or Fable before buying? No they are not. The best selling titles on Amazon are Nancy Drew. No demos either.

How many people with a $3000 computer and $50/month broadband connection are really going to agonize over $40? Their main limitation is time, not money.

Is there a big market in appealing to picky people with so little disposable income that they carp about a measley forty bucks like its buying a new house? No there is not.

Do demos ever satisfy picky people? Can a demo even do justice to the more complex games of today? No they cannot. Movie highlights do a better job.

People who want to get just a taste of a game download the demo, play it for a while, and having satisfied themselves, never bother to actually buy the game.

People who collect free demos and never buy actual games... spend a lot of time on the internet carping for free things. Game buyers spend their time playing, and working to make money to buy the things they want. They don't spend their time on the internet, posting over and over again begging for things to be free.

I still remember for C:FW the largest poster to their board was some guy who had been there for two years, posting 10-15 messages daily, and never bought the game. It was really ...creepy.

[sitearm]

Innovan: I agree not worrying TOO much $40 though prefer $20 or $10 risks. Agree more significant is time AND emotional investment in buying-into, getting-into game. Like a movie.

Glad when audio CD stores added headphones and sample tracks. Games more complex. Still hunt for good ones by similarity, reputation, heritage.

Heard of CotN site this year only by going back to Emperor and Zeus official and fan sites and hunting around. Seemed like accident I found as until then had not been a forum person. Forums' reputations to the non-gamer public are... questionable. Bad rap and rep not deserved as I now see.

The forums make the games more fun. A receptive, good spirit is priceless. Let's keep it that way.

[Janmeryet]

How many people with a $3000 computer and $50/month broadband connection are really going to agonize over $40? Their main limitation is time, not money.

Is there a big market in appealing to picky people with so little disposable income that they carp about a measley forty bucks like its buying a new house? No there is not.


While I take most of your arguments, Innovan, I can tell you're not one of the people living on the border of the poverty line. Some of us have AU$800 second-hand computers, AU$30 a month broadband for work purposes, and about AU$15 a week (if I stick to budget) disposable income. So yes, saving for a month, which means NO extra nice things (like movies or coffee with friends or presents for anyone etc) really can be an agonizing decision. So while I'm sure you didn't mean to cause any offence, and none taken, perhaps generalisations without words like 'picky', 'carp' and 'measly' would be nicer. We all live in different circumstances. Still, you're right about the logic - there wouldn't be much of a market in my income bracket :)

[Eddy]

Thank you janmeryt for saying this. I'm an American who earns less than 15K a year and I get sick and tired of people thinking that I have money to burn. Not all of us are career driven yuppies.

[Janmeryet]

You'll have to downsize your ninja squad, Eddy! :p Then you can afford to buy this thing :D

Ooh, ooh! Another thought! People to whom $40 is measly can buy a copy of the game for us - it is almost Christmas, after all. They'd get a warm charitable glow, and we'd get a game! Whaddya reckon?

[child of Thor]

@Innovan,

your points are well put and make a lot of sense, but its not always about the money.
Sometimes its about not pulling the wool over a customers eyes, even if you get your $50. No-one likes to feel they've been suckerd or plain ripped off. I've had many experiences over 20 years of gaming and i dont really feel things are at the best stage of customer/publisher relationships.
No one really even often pretends these days, that they care beyond getting you money for a mediocre title that you play once, get maybe a dozen hrs out of and forget about forever.
It wasn't always like that - game makers and game players had something in common, they both loved games.
So dont rate the pure face value of the money, without taking the longterm relationship with the customer into account, it can cost you your job as much of the industry finds out far too often these days!
Demos are only things to be scared off when your game sucks.

[Innovan]

>>Demos are only things to be scared off when your game sucks.

So GTA:San Andreas, Halo2 and Fable all must really suck, right? Gosh, why else would they not have released demos? They must be afraid.

NOT!

[David Beebe]

http://www.tiltedmill.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4450&page=1&pp=20

Bass-ti says:

The Demo utterly convinced me of the game..

Thanks @ Koppi .. I'm going to buy the english version now.
-> And I'm indeed going to let CotN working at my machine for the whole day now (remember I'm GMT+1.00). :D

[NeilV]

>>Demos are only things to be scared off when your game sucks.

So GTA:San Andreas, Halo2 and Fable all must really suck, right? Gosh, why else would they not have released demos? They must be afraid.

NOT!

well Fable does :rolleyes:

But some games its just imposable to release a demo take The sims (2) for example and their are a lot of other games that dont have demos and sell very well. A demo is only part of what sells a game

[Innovan]

TM will have to see. Does their demo net them any actual sales?

Or will people just download the demo, play a few hours to get a taste, and never buy the actual game.

[sitearm]

* holds crystal ball... reads answer... answer is...* "Yes"

TM will have to see. Does their demo net them any actual sales? Or will people just download the demo, play a few hours to get a taste, and never buy the actual game.

[48 Crash]

The one demo that I remember hating with a passion was for the first X-COM.
I tried it five or six times then throwing the floppy out. About a year later I saw a copy in the store for 10 bucks(floopy version) and being bored decided to buy it. Best game I ever bought. Since then I never base my purchase on just the demo.

[child of Thor]

>>Demos are only things to be scared off when your game sucks.

So GTA:San Andreas, Halo2 and Fable all must really suck, right? Gosh, why else would they not have released demos? They must be afraid.

NOT!

Well all those games are some of the biggest recent releases in their genre's, and also they are part of a massive marketing campaign.
Still it would be interesting to see just how much money was spent on those games marketing, and compare it to a game like CotN?

I still believe that one of the reasons for the death of the demo is because for many developers/publishers they find them too revealing in todays market. There are other reasons, like target audience's shifting to the so called 'sunday gamer' who are less likely to download stuff etc.

Many of the games that i bought for my xbox i would have avoided if i had played a demo first, well except i wanted to 'research' the new game industrys direction. Still those demo dvds that some xbox magazines give away are a good way to test before you buy, i've played a couple of those that helped me decide to later go get a game(and the opposite too!)

hmmm......you cant really be saying you think less of a company that gives people the option to try before they buy can you?? ;)

Whatever - my opinion is that Tilted Mill have done a good thing in giving us a demo, and already that has made me kindly disposed towards their games - its already building that good vibe between customer and developer :D

[Josh]

The vast majority of people buy entertainment titles without playing a demo or even reading a review. Is anyone playing a demo of San Andreas, or Halo2, or Fable before buying? No they are not. The best selling titles on Amazon are Nancy Drew. No demos either.

How many people with a $3000 computer and $50/month broadband connection are really going to agonize over $40? Their main limitation is time, not money.

Is there a big market in appealing to picky people with so little disposable income that they carp about a measley forty bucks like its buying a new house? No there is not.

I wish I had your problems.

I would say the vast majority of gamers do not fit in that catagory, most gamers do not have 3000 dollar computers and disposable incomes rivaling the best of the luxury leisure sports, and If companies tried to cater only to that elite group gaming would not be a billion dollar industry.

I also have to say most games are not in the same boat as Halo2 or Fable. those are games people pre-order a year in advance and grown men wet themselves in antisipation rivaling xmas morning when they were six. Look at the number of games released just this month. All struggling for the same expendable dollar, No Halo2 is not Deffinately Not typical of games.

Also part of the reason they arent playing demos for the games you mentioned might be because they are console games... But even when I buy console games (Halo2 or san andreas are the exception) I rent them or borrow them from a friend first, then buy it.

The only other time I would buy a game without trying it first is if i trust the developers, Rockstar Games, Bungie, Maxis, and most importantly Impres.... Tilted Mill.

[Amenirdis]

I preferably play the demo of a game first, if available. As so many already have said, I don't have to luxury to buy a game, then find out it doesn't run well on my pc or that I don't like it at all and simply think: 'Well... bad luck. I buy another game in that case.'
A demo can be a big help for the decision making. And where there is no available demo, I just wait until magazines have tested it, or people post something about the game on the internet.
I wish I could afford a $3000 pc, but for that I'd have to save up for years. Everyday life is simply expensive enough.

[Caylynn]

I've frequently bought games, only after trying out the demo. I generally don't run out and buy a game right away when it's released - I've been burned too many times in the past - unless it's by a company I have total faith in, and is a title in a style that I know I enjoy playing (ie. the Bioware RPGs).

Otherwise, I wait for reviews to come out, and for a demo.

I bought Caesar III (which got me into citybuilding) after playing the demo to death. With CotN, I *thought* I would enjoy it, but the demo totally sold me on the game. :)

[Celebithil Dae]

I dont do demos ususally, mainly cause i have dial up, and face it, at that rate, DLing demos takes a while, andi dont have that patice. Oly 1 demo made me buy a game, that was Lord of Magic, which i got for free when i got CWG2. Played that, then couldnt find the bloody thing, till we went of vacation to... i think Virginia... Anyways. Sides that, (fellow gamers) reviews, reputation, and whatever other info i can grab somewhat quickly on a dial up connection, and for free.

CaUSE face it, im a college student, i dont have disposable income. It goes to tuition, books, or gas. Take yer pick. Donations accepted ;)

[slaponte]

Lets see : I love demos. And I DO buy based on the demo experience.

I think a demo is most usefull on the first version of the game. Example, I won't buy Halo 2 if I didn't have Halo. And, if I loved Halo, I am buying Halo 2... So a demo for Halo 2 is kind of useless. Unless the game play changed considerably and you are trying to bring new buyers in.

I try the demo for gameplay, to see if it leaves me "wanting for more". The option is to buy the game ($40, $50...) and find out after 1 or 2 days that you are done with it. I get one of those magazines with monthly Demo CDs. Of 12, I probably install 4 or 5, of which I might buy one, maybe two in the end. But thats because I don't like first person shooters and this is most of what is out there these days... :cool:

To CotN, great demo. Had fun playing, and definetly wanted to see much more of the game. It let me play for quite a while without giving away some of the great stuff to come. I think you guys came up with a perfect demo to entice buyers.

[Omnipa]

Free demos DO sell games.

Two that spring to mind are CotN and Battlefield1942. I like an opportunity to get a "feel" for the game. Even with reviews I still get an occassional lemon, but really enjoy getting a chance to actual Test Drive it.

[dreamsoftwilight]

Do free demons ever sell games? Well yes I suppose they would be more likely to sell games than capitive ones, after all I think they might be happier. :D

[parrotslave]

Money is too scarce to waste on a game I haven't tried.

[GillB]

Normally, no, as I usually rely on the opinion of friends who like the same sort of games as me. However I've just ordered Diablo II (yep, I know I'm years behind) as a result of playing (& consistently losing) the demo. So I'd have to say yes

[Mouzafphaerre]

-
Depends on the game and the demo. Usually I know what type of a game I'll get. I knew Pharaoh, so I didn't need a demo for Emperor. I'll definitely buy CotN too.

A friend of mine downladed Tropico 2's demo, burnt it and mailed me when I didn't yet have ADSL. I played and liked it and so on.

My brother was gifted Sea Dogs. Didn't play it. I did and got addicted.

So, lots of permutations have happened. ;)
-

[MarkDuffy]

Demos DEFINITELY sell games to me. Of course I buy games that I hear about from other sources, but many games have got me via the Demo route, ESPECIALLY companies who put Demos of other games on their install disks!

[Elvenwarrior2001]

Let's put it this way...I wouldn't be here without demos. I played the Lords of Magic demo (which many of TM people were involved in) and got HOOKED! That's they way I found out about it, bought it, and got hooked. Then I got into community at the Imps forums. And I've followed the guys here. It's effective alright. Plus I use it to gauge games I'm unsure about.

Elven

[Cyric]

Demos are selling games. I played the Cotn demo and i just bought it without even finish the 1st tutorial.
I did it many times in the past. No i'm not ofc the guy who download 10 demos per day (1 per month if something is interest).

[arcan]

They do sell games, but they also prevent selling them. I've tested settlers V demo. I had half my mind about buying it. Now, I won't. It's too expensive for a not-that-good game. I may still buy it though if I find it much cheaper... (about half price) or wait that it comes down to that price...

[tobing]

They do sell games, but they also prevent selling them. I've tested settlers V demo. I had half my mind about buying it. Now, I won't. It's too expensive for a not-that-good game. I may still buy it though if I find it much cheaper... (about half price) or wait that it comes down to that price...
In that case it is a good thing, because it keeps customers from spending money and being disappointed after that.

[MarkDuffy]

They do sell games, but they also prevent selling them. I've tested settlers V demo. I had half my mind about buying it. Now, I won't. It's too expensive for a not-that-good game. I may still buy it though if I find it much cheaper... (about half price) or wait that it comes down to that price...

Wow, I forgot all about SV when COTN came out. I will buy it in a heartbeat, whether it is good or not.

Why didn't you like it, Arcan? Did you play S3 & S4?

[arcan]

I only played the demo, but I also read the articles in french magazines. The rating is 5 (average). Before i've only playde S2, but now, I'll try to find S3 or S4 to play.
S5 is too much of a RTS. No management worth it eitehr micro or macro. It's good to last a few hours, but once you've built all the different kinds of buildings, it has simply no more interest...

[tobing]

S2 was the best imo. I couldn't really play S3, because somehow this felt too much like only having soldiers and playing warfare, but mostly it was because of the cumbersome handling of ships and troop movements between isles. S4 was better, but still lacking the fascination of S2. Now, S5 is simply just another RTS game, looking great, but not much news beyond that.

[MarkDuffy]

Wow, I never played S2. I love Settlers cuz it IS a RTS wargame with HUGE resource chains, especially with the extra civilizations & all the add-on discs & missions.

S2 must have been quite different if you all liked it, but not the later versions.

I guess this is why I find COTN lacking. I wanted something COTNish with Zeus built in also.

[tobing]

The point of S2 was 1st the waypoint system, and 2nd the indirect warfare. Both great concepts, both giving their own specific challenges...

[vic_4]

I have tried settler 3 and 4 and I did not like either one.