resource requierments for make buildings

[martouf]

In some citybuilders, to make a building, it would cost a certain amount wood, gold, bricks, etc. will CotN use the same idea, or will we be able to just place as many structures without a cost to supplies?
-martouf

[Keith]

In some citybuilders, to make a building, it would cost a certain amount wood, gold, bricks, etc. will CotN use the same idea, or will we be able to just place as many structures without a cost to supplies?
-martouf
I would hope that there is some "cost" involved. It would remove a great amount of the game's challenge if you could just build things for free.
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[Caesar Alan]

I think the question was more 'will buildings require resources (wood, stone etc.) rather than just money to build'.

My guess is that, for at least some buildings, resources other than money will be needed.

In one of the interviews, I recall Chris mentioning that CotN will have a barter-based economy for trade. It's just possible that will extend throughout the game and we will find that money is not used for anything, and we will need instead to acquire raw materials for our ambitious (and more mundane) building projects.

[Ineti]

In one of the interviews, I recall Chris mentioning that CotN will have a barter-based economy for trade. It's just possible that will extend throughout the game and we will find that money is not used for anything, and we will need instead to acquire raw materials for our ambitious (and more mundane) building projects.

That would make sense since the bulk of Egyptian history made use of the barter system and payments in kind. Maybe paying for a building or an improvement or the like could be tied to your grain reserves and how much other material you have in your treasury.

[Lord Huh]

In the Egyption sun....I sweat a lot......Can i collect my sweat and sell it to the locals for stone

[G-Force]

We could then get very complex trades: Say city A has marble and will only trade it for copper. We can't make copper so we turn to city B who will only trade it to us in exchange for linnen. We don't got linnen, but we can get flax from city C.

So in order to get marble from city A, we'll import flax from city C, change it to linnen for city B, so that we can then get the copper needed to get the marble from city A.

I just love all the possibilities :)

G-Force

[martouf]

We could then get very complex trades: Say city A has marble and will only trade it for copper. We can't make copper so we turn to city B who will only trade it to us in exchange for linnen. We don't got linnen, but we can get flax from city C.

So in order to get marble from city A, we'll import flax from city C, change it to linnen for city B, so that we can then get the copper needed to get the marble from city A.

I just love all the possibilities :)

G-Force

i like that idea.

[mouse]

;) Getting raw materials from one city and selling finished goods to another city has been part of the trade in the city building games either for profit or for goods wanted/needed by your city :D So nothing new in that type of trade

[Nero Would]

I think the new feature that G-Force has in mind is that a city might not sell you something just because you have money and want to buy. For example, they might only be willing to trade beer for linen, so you can't buy beer from them unless you can find a supply of linen.

It has been said that barter plays a part in this game, but i'm not sure if that is meant to apply to trade between cities, trades within a city (e.g. at a bazaar) or both. As I understand it, barter was very common in ancient Egypt, but I'm still not sure that anyone would turn down an offer of gold in return for their goods.

[Miut]

Well, although at several times, from memory mainly those after Alexander took Egypt, coinage did exist, the Egyptians never developed coins themselves.
Everything was measured against a set weight of grain as someone has already said.
So if you had 2 chickens, they were worth 1 measure of grain, and you wanted a to buy linen worth 1 measure of grain, you bartered it till you got what you needed..

Gold was not used as currency at home at least. It was used for the temples and the King, beautifying statues, jewellery.. Gold and Lapis represented the flesh and hair of the Gods I think it was.. Or interchangeably for the flesh of the gods. After all, only Osiris was blue skinned, and only he was a god who had died and been reborn.. And a dead pharaoh was referred to in papyruses as Osisris Khefu or Khefu Osisris.

[Jayhawk]

I definitely like that idea, G-Force. Especially if you could also use that to set up specific goods in other cities that are yours and use them to help you trade.

[Keith]

If a barter system is used it will have to be kept to a relatively simple level otherwise the game would bog down in a series of trades to get some ulitmate object of desire.

Trade grain for something, trade that something for something else, until I trade that last something for the thing I really want.

That would get tedious very quickly.
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[G-Force]

Yet it would add a whole new dimension to the game.

Perhaps there'll be a combination. Say city A will sell you 5 linnen for gold, and 15 more if traded for beer. That way there would be an stimulance to give them what they want, yet a little amount is available to work with.

G-Force

[Keith]

Yet it would add a whole new dimension to the game.

Perhaps there'll be a combination. Say city A will sell you 5 linnen for gold, and 15 more if traded for beer. That way there would be an stimulance to give them what they want, yet a little amount is available to work with.

G-Force
New isn't always better. Since we don't have all the details yet, it may well be that we have absolutely no control over this aspect.

As a ruler, I don't believe I would have spent my days dealig with everyday minutia instead of dealing with the afairs of state and the nation as a whole.
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[martouf]

I think the new feature that G-Force has in mind is that a city might not sell you something just because you have money and want to buy. For example, they might only be willing to trade beer for linen, so you can't buy beer from them unless you can find a supply of linen.

It has been said that barter plays a part in this game, but i'm not sure if that is meant to apply to trade between cities, trades within a city (e.g. at a bazaar) or both. As I understand it, barter was very common in ancient Egypt, but I'm still not sure that anyone would turn down an offer of gold in return for their goods.

I think they should use both systems, barter or use gold. However, barter and gold shouldnt work for a product at the same time all the time. For example, you want to buy Waset's linen, in order to get the linen, they ask for beer one day, on another day they want gold instead of beer, or even a certain amount of both.

If the devs decide to use barter, i hope they work out the value of each item really well. Also in history, bartering wasnt limited to one item for another item. People traded many less valuable items for a lesser amount of more valuable items. For example, 3 barrels of grain, 10 mudbricks, and 5 rolls of linen for a chest of incense from China. that would cool if trading like that was an option

-martouf

[EmperorJay]

I would like to see such a system, it sounds good, it sounds innovative and it gives some strategical options. The trade options in the previous games were quite limited compared to a system like this, but! I don't mind having to think about game, I don't mind having to spend a lot of time on it, but too much complexity will put me off. So don't go to far with it.

[Keith]

.... I don't mind having to spend a lot of time on it, but too much complexity will put me off. So don't go to far with it.
Exactly what I mean by minutia. I don't want to so buried in it that I can't enjoy the game or it's other would be features.

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[Nero Would]

If a barter system is used it will have to be kept to a relatively simple level otherwise the game would bog down in a series of trades to get some ulitmate object of desire.

Trade grain for something, trade that something for something else, until I trade that last something for the thing I really want.

That would get tedious very quickly.

I agree, but it might be an interesting feature of the game if it is used sparingly.

An alternative might be that cities could keep track of their annual trade deficit or surplus with you. They could stop buying from you if their deficit for the year is above a certain amount. They might stop selling to you if their surplus is above a certain amount (although this would be harder to explain). The result would be that, for these cities, the trade would have to be a two way affair. This mechanism might be used instead of, or as well as, the old annual trade quota.

[Keith]

I agree, but it might be an interesting feature of the game if it is used sparingly.

An alternative might be that cities could keep track of their annual trade deficit or surplus with you. They could stop buying from you if their deficit for the year is above a certain amount. They might stop selling to you if their surplus is above a certain amount (although this would be harder to explain). The result would be that, for these cities, the trade would have to be a two way affair. This mechanism might be used instead of, or as well as, the old annual trade quota.
That would be more interesting than dealing with a barter system on a local market/citizen level. It would add some unpredictability to a game in that you could now always count on selling a set maximum amount of something to another city.

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[EmperorJay]

That leads to another possible problem :p . A little randomness (or unpredictability) is nice and it makes the game diffirent each time you play it, too much randomness, however, takes away all the strategy. So the system* that Nero Would suggests should be a process that repeats itself every few years instead of every few months.

*(lower supply > less income > increase in supply to raise income > overpoducing of products > production stops > lower supply>repeat)

[Miut]

Their real barter system worked well. I put it badly I am afraid. Everything was valued against a measure of grain and had a set cost so 2 chickens meant you went to grain merchant for 1 measure grain or you went to beer shop for 3 jugs beer or whatever. You didn't have to keep exchanging things to get what you wanted, you just had to give the price in grain in equivalent value oif the goods you offered.

But yes, it could get tedious. :) Gold is an easier commodity to work with. Imagine having to pay the workers only in bread and beer and you have no beer in that mission! Nightmare!

[Hanarky]

I like the idea having certain industries only available, when you city fulfills certain requirements. Let's say you have diamond ressources in city, but will be allowed to build diamond mines only, when your city reaches a certain wealth or seize. Poor farming workers and huts don't need luxury. You can combine that with the already mentioned trade behaviour of other cities. City A wants luxury to trade with you something you need e.g. to build a monument or take the luxury to develop your city even more. Or a good needing two resources to be made. One you have available and the other you get with trade.
Or adjust the pricing system to the favor of your trade partner towards you. They don't like you, the pay less, the love you they pay the highest prices. This will have to keep you busy to establish good relations to other cities with gifts or what do I know.

Hanarky

[Elvenwarrior2001]

Their real barter system worked well. I put it badly I am afraid. Everything was valued against a measure of grain and had a set cost so 2 chickens meant you went to grain merchant for 1 measure grain or you went to beer shop for 3 jugs beer or whatever. You didn't have to keep exchanging things to get what you wanted, you just had to give the price in grain in equivalent value oif the goods you offered.

But yes, it could get tedious. :) Gold is an easier commodity to work with. Imagine having to pay the workers only in bread and beer and you have no beer in that mission! Nightmare!

Or...feed them on... *drum roll* Bread...and WATER! Poor peasants...;)

Elven