Congrats to Tilted Mill!

[buckylarue]

Congratulations on going gold with CotN!! Can't wait to see it!!

[Son of Moose]

GREAT NEWS INDEED --- now the waiting is nearly over. :D

[Keith]

Yes, congratulations. Now the wait begins.

[Keith]

The wating for the beta test to be over is over. Now you have to wait for the game to actully make it to the stores. ;)

[Kars-T]

Yeah! Grats that you did it!!! :D
The first step to hopefully a long line of immortal cities!

[Bugsy]

I add my heartfelt CONGRATS! As well.


Nov. 9 cannot get here fast enough. And then...I have to wait some more for it to arrive in the pretty little Brown Truck that comes by my house every once in a while. Did I ever mention I hate waiting? :D

[Son of Moose]

Bugsy:

Did I ever mention I hate waiting?

Yes --- I think you did. :) But it will be equally hard for us all. :(

[However, it should actually be extremely interesting reading US-based members initial impressions of CotN while we are waiting elsewhere ;) ].

[googoo]

You know what TM should do to alleviate the pain of waiting? Release a demo.

[Maatkaamun]

Congrats!! :D :D
*marking Nov 9th on calendar, reserving a camping space outside local game store... Let's see, Massachusetts, November, that means lots of hot chocolate, earmuffs, and a good egyptian mystery...*
:D

[Emperor Ramirez]

I don't understand why this company has neglected us for so long regarding the issue of a demo. Just say whether you are going to release it or not. If you don't release it, me and many others won't buy. :mad:

[googoo]

I'll still buy, no doubt, but i'm sure a few others, like yourself, would love to try a demo. I'll see what the reviews give. I know a plethora of games that did well without a demo warcraft 3 and doom 3 to name a few.

[Bugsy]

Even if no demo is forthcoming, this is one game I would buy off the shelf anyway. It appeals to the very things I like most in a game, Egyptian theme, city building, new concepts, and awesome screenshots. With the in-depth interviews, the Developers themselves walking among the forums, replying here and there, it is a special company, one can see right away when coming here, they care very much about their fans, and how their fans see them.

I don't think they deserve such an ultimatum, nor does the game, from all the information out on it already. I think people who say they wouldn't buy the game without a demo, would be missing one truly awesome game. ;)

[gem1n100]

I'll still buy, no doubt, but i'm sure a few others, like yourself, would love to try a demo. I'll see what the reviews give. I know a plethora of games that did well without a demo warcraft 3 and doom 3 to name a few.


But those are the 3rd in a (sorta) series.

Don't get me wrong tho, I would still buy the game without a demo because of everything I have read about this game. Mainly because I have played pharaoh and cleopatra for a long time and loved it.

[Emperor Ramirez]

Well, thanks for your comments. It's a free country and we can have different opinions. But I personally want to know the reasoning behind your point of view. I don't get it, that's all. Unless, you are rich, I don't see how you would be willing to spend 40 bucks without being sure that what you are getting is worth it! Please, enlight me.

[googoo]

If I'm certain, half-life didn't have a demo on the outset of its release, and it did extremely well.

[googoo]

Nore did the sims.

[Bugsy]

Assuming you were asking me? :D

Because I have been gaming for so many years, that demos are still a new thing for me. I'm not used to being able to download a 200MB demo and try a game before I bought it. I bought games based on their box descriptions, and possibly a web site in the last few years. Before that, word of mouth, or the box.

I have invested literally thousands of dollars into a hobby of computer games. (Console too, and there's certainly no demos for those!) There has only been maybe 20 retail PC games I have ever played a demo for. I play a lot of arcade demos, and don't count those as retail games. It's all still just shareware.

Demos...just aren't as important to me as details. This site is THE most in-depth pre-release site I've ever seen. It caught my attention from day one, and has kept it for months. Quite a feat, knowing myself as I do.

I do love to play a demo, don't get me wrong. :D They are a good thing when there is one. I just wouldn't decide to not purchase a game simply because it had no demo. I would have missed out on some killer games if I were like that.

Sure, I get clunkers, that were a waste of cash. Civ 3 was like that. I could have played the demo, and opted not to, since I had enjoyed Civ 2. Bad move. I don't like Civ 3, and now it sits in the collection gathering dust.

[NeilV]

Demos are not the be all and end all of telling how good is a game i have a lot of off the shelf purchases which are very good games a large amout that have not lasted on my PC for more than 5 Min but i like computer games and me buying a game helps that desinger by giving him money to create the next game which i may love also i have down loaded some demos with the limted stuff it has given me thought i will buy this gone out got the game and wounderd why i brought this crop of s##t as the game has been dire.

By all right be carefull at what you buy but there are other ways of finding out how good a game is.

PC mags (find one you trust)
Web Site Reviews
site forum (after game is relased find out if ther eare many post saying how bad is this game)
In shop test (some shops let you test the game in the shop manly console but you could ask)
Web Cafe (normaly have a lot of the latest games so so if they have it and test it out.

just a few ideas dont get stuck on the idea of a demo :)

[Emperor Ramirez]

Thanks for your comments and ideas, I really appreciate it. I guess you made your point. So I am just going to wait for the game to come and then we'll see.

[Nero Would]

Well, thanks for your comments. It's a free country and we can have different opinions. But I personally want to know the reasoning behind your point of view. I don't get it, that's all. Unless, you are rich, I don't see how you would be willing to spend 40 bucks without being sure that what you are getting is worth it! Please, enlight me.
I am reasonably sure that the game will be worth it. I've been following the development in these forums, and I've played the earlier city builder games from many of these same people.

I realise that (plus the reviews) won't be enough for some people. That's why I think it's likely there will be a demo. The previous games all had demos, but they came out round about the same time as the game. I doubt that Tilted Mill have spent much time (or perhaps, any time) on a demo so far as they would have been concentrating on finishing the game. Now it's gone gold, perhaps we we hear about a demo soon.

[Bugsy]

Emperor Ramirez:

Please, keep hanging out with us! We'll *all* rejoice if/when a demo is announced! :D

And if it isn't...then we still learn a lot about the game from being here, and make an informed decision, even if it isn't hands on with the demo.

I agree with wanting a demo, but I differ from what you have said in that I'll buy the game without one. You have a valid point, and I hope we'll hear officially as soon as they have time to tell us. :)

[wodinoneeye]

I don't understand why this company has neglected us for so long regarding the issue of a demo. Just say whether you are going to release it or not. If you don't release it, me and many others won't buy. :mad:


They can be very busy fixing anything that the Beta test turns up and
finalizing the product.

The demo is of secondary priority.

[Innovan]

Game Makers Speak Out on Demos
Some publishers interviewed added that some game demos may actually hurt sales. Publishers supported their suggestion by pointing to frequent online play of demo versions compared to their full retail counterparts, as well as disproportionately high numbers of demo downloads compared to retail sales.

"I think that in some cases, the demo gives too much of the game away. People will play them for hours, and that's enough for them," said one publisher.

Demo versions of games have long been recognized as a useful marketing tool, but it's far from certain whether or not they actually have an effect on sales numbers, according to some publishers.

source (http://www.macworld.com/news/2002/10/30/demos/)

[mouse]

Some games I wouldn't buy without a demo simply because a company doesn't have a track record with me. Some games I've liked the demo and hated the game (so I put that game on the shelf and give it away at a later date). But the TM folks have a track record from the days when many of them were at Impressions so I will buy the game knowing it will be a good well crafted game :D

[NanaBanana]

Thanks for your comments and ideas, I really appreciate it. I guess you made your point. So I am just going to wait for the game to come and then we'll see.

This is not to say TM won't have a demo. But, demo's don't come out during the beta testing. Sometimes not even until the game is released.

To say you won't buy a game without first seeing a demo is kinda strange IMO. I have downloaded very few demos and usually hated them so didn't buy the game. My "addiction" stems mostly from castoffs my hubby bought for himself and didn't like. C3 was the start of my addiction to citybuilders.

I have never played a CB demo, but they remain one of my favorite genres in PC games.

[Son of Moose]

Innovan:

"I think that in some cases, the demo gives too much of the game away. People will play them for hours, and that's enough for them," said one publisher.

Yes --- it is definitely a double-edged sword. A good demo might provide some people with enough for them to just play that. :o A bad demo, on the other hand, can be extremely counterproductive. :(

[Son of Moose]

Mouse:

Some games I've liked the demo and hated the game

Yes --- I am sure that we have all been caught by potentially "misleading" demos that do not provide one with a full idea of a game. :( Perhaps it would be interesting if members were to "name a few names". ;)

I really hope that Emperor Ramirez does not feel like this wrt the CotN demo. :eek:

[Son of Moose]

I must admit that HUGE (300+MB sized) demos are great for people with a broadband connection (as they can really give one a great idea of what to expect in the game). :D However, sadly, they are rather unrealistic for those with slower connections. :(

I have had both --- so I have experienced both sides of this rather vexed issue. :)

[tobing]

For me, it's mostly the other way, wrt demos. I play a demo and don't buy the game because I think the demo is bad. Usually I decide on games to buy or not based on Who is the dev? What do reviews tell me? Do I like the genre? What's the price?

So sometimes I delay buying a game, because I feel that the value is not in accordance to the price, so I wait for the bargain bin. Only when I get hints that the game will be worth its price I get it soon after release. Another indicator is the frequency of official patches, and the activity in the support forums (I waited with 1503 until the forums told me that it is OK now).

In summary I would not overestimate demos, and if you release a demo at all, it should better be really really good and get players hooked!

[angelisis]

I must admit that HUGE (300+MB sized) demos are great for people with a broadband connection (as they can really give one a great idea of what to expect in the game). :D However, sadly, they are rather unrealistic for those with slower connections. :(

I have had both --- so I have experienced both sides of this rather vexed issue. :)



ah but people will get the demo via dial connection if they have too...i waited near on 6 hours for the pharoah demo and it was worth it...just start the download at 6am walk away and forget about it, before you know it you have it! i have broadband now so i guess i do not have to worry so much but still i would wait the 6 hours for CotN if i had too....

[Son of Moose]

Angelisis:

Unfortunately here in South Africa (and maybe elsewhere too) non-broadband connections are billed by the SECOND. :eek:

Therefore, unfortunately a six hour download would tend to bankrupt one!! :( [My biggest non-broadband download was the AoM demo at 300+MB --- it must have cost a good half as much as the full game!! :o ].

[vic_4]

I like to use demos and, for example, when Emperor demo was released I plaied it a lot waiting the game to arrive to Italy.

[Keith]

I don't understand why this company has neglected us for so long regarding the issue of a demo. Just say whether you are going to release it or not. If you don't release it, me and many others won't buy. :mad:
Even producing a demo costs money so it may or may not be in the budget. You'll just have to wait and see like the rest of us.

[Keith]

Angelisis:

Unfortunately here in South Africa (and maybe elsewhere too) non-broadband connections are billed by the SECOND. :eek:

Therefore, unfortunately a six hour download would tend to bankrupt one!! :( [My biggest non-broadband download was the AoM demo at 300+MB --- it must have cost a good half as much as the full game!! :o ].
It doesn't seem to bother you while you post all your replies. :D ;)

Using a download client like Get Right or WS_FTP Pro or Gozilla, will let you pause downloads so you can resume when you comeback on line. Downloading while web browsing throught the board here will be slow, but it can be done. I'm on a dialup as well. It may take several days, but eventually you'll get it done.

The largest thing I've downloaded was 470MB. It took me about 4 days with a few pauses in between.

[NanaBanana]

The largest thing I've downloaded was 470MB. It took me about 4 days with a few pauses in between.

:eek: Wow Keith, you must have wanted whatever it was pretty bad. I don't have that kind of patience. :D

I thought it was bad enough with the Zeus patches taking 4-5 hours to dl on a DUN.

I remember TAO telling me about the huge patches for another game. Sheesh, that must have taken you forever to dl those.

[Yahya]

The largest thing I've downloaded was 470MB. It took me about 4 days with a few pauses in between.Boy, us American have a lot of nerve complaining when our cable bandwidth slows down at 3:00 in the afternoon because all the kids come home, huh? ;)

[Son of Moose]

Keith:

It doesn't seem to bother you while you post all your replies.

I am on broadband for the moment!! :D There is certainly NO WAY that I would be able to look at the forum for any length of time otherwise. :eek: I would otherwise have a monthly phone bill the equivalent of a couple of thousand dollars!!! :eek: I am, however, possibly living on borrowed time in this respect --- as my connection is sponsored. :(

Yes --- I did use a programme (a download accelerator) named JetCar. It has subsequently been renamed to ? FlashGet. :)

[Keith]

:eek: Wow Keith, you must have wanted whatever it was pretty bad. I don't have that kind of patience. :D

I thought it was bad enough with the Zeus patches taking 4-5 hours to dl on a DUN.

I remember TAO telling me about the huge patches for another game. Sheesh, that must have taken you forever to dl those.
It was a free game. It was 3rd party re-write of a game I already owned but with many mods and tweaks added. The game company gave them the source code when they went out of business. It was a WW2 strategy wargame based on Steel Panthers by Strategic Simultions Inc. (SSI) The re-written game is called "Steel Panthers World at War" or SPW@W for short. Luckily it was posted on a FTP server so I could use my FTP client and not worry about being disconnected or pausing the download.

[Keith]

Keith:



I am on broadband for the moment!! :D There is certainly NO WAY that I would be able to look at the forum for any length of time otherwise. :eek: I would otherwise have a monthly phone bill the equivalent of a couple of thousand dollars!!! :eek: I am, however, possibly living on borrowed time in this respect --- as my connection is sponsored. :(

Yes --- I did use a programme (a download accelerator) named JetCar. It has subsequently been renamed to ? FlashGet. :)
I have never been on broadband and don't want to try it because I feel it still costs too much . I've been waiting for years and the price keeps coming down. Eventually it will get to a reasonable enough level.

It took a while but I now have access to either cable or DSL. DSL is cheaper, cable is faster but a lot more expensive. I looked into both and it would run me about $800 a year for cable. I've got better uses for my money.

[Son of Moose]

Keith:

The ADSL I currently have costs the equivalent of US$150-00 per MONTH!! :eek:

Therefore you can see why I have to have it sponsored (for work-related purposes --- maybe some more next month). :o Internet (in general) is OUTRAGEOUSLY expensive here in South Africa. :o Consider yourself somewhat lucky ... :p

[NeilV]

Boy you both have it bad my 512 MB BB cost me €39 a month and thats slightly expensive as in UK you can get BB from £19.99 a month dont know about cable as we dont have that here in Eire (not as big population to make it worth there time laying the cable apart for TV) Which is why i have to have digital TV

[Son of Moose]

NeilV:

No wonder my UK-based employer got palpitations!!! :eek:

[Keith]

$150 a month! Ouch! They aren't going to grow the industry there at those kind of prices.

[Enigmatic_Sphinx]

$150 a month!!! Here in the SF/Bay Area we're looking at 29.95/month these days...

I also am writing it off as a business expense.

[Son of Moose]

Keith and Enigmatic Sphinx:

Yes --- ADSL probably won't grow that much away from the business sector. :o There have been many complaints --- but (as we have a monopoly wrt our telecommunications provider), they have fallen on deaf ears. :mad:

[NeilV]

I also am writing it off as a business expense.

She who must be obeyed writes it off as keeping me out of her way type of expense :p :D

[Enigmatic_Sphinx]

I actually run adsl for 50 a month. but my provider screwed up and I have more than 6 months free right now!!!!!!!!!

And as far as cable access goes, my friends who have it claim fairly major latency issues. Most are online games players so it's a big pain for them.

[Son of Moose]

Eginmatic Sphinx:

but my provider screwed up and I have more than 6 months free right now!!!!!!!!!

Yes --- providers in the US are indeed very service-orientated and really like to keep their clients. :D This type of attitude would be extremely refreshing here. :o

[Enigmatic_Sphinx]

Believe me they weren't very customer friendly, I spent a great deal of time on the phone. Altho the resolution has turned out acceptable I would have preferred to just pay and have service when (and where) I ordered it.

Anyway, I'm gonna stop on this subject as it's getting off-topic...