Trade

[martouf]

Will we be able to trade with other cities like in Pharaoh?

[Keith]

Will we be able to trade with other cities like in Pharaoh?
Better yet, will their be more types of trade, i.e., more items?

The old citybuilders were a bit on the simplistic side in regards to trade goods and what the citizens required.
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[quijote]

I`d love to see more types of trade too (a lot more, at least 100 :P).
Also, one of the things I didin´t like of Zeus and Emperor was having different tradehouses for each city you were trading with. I`d prefer to have tradehouses shared by all trading cities, this way you could have one tradehouse for wood, another for stones, another for food. So, you can close the "stone tradehouse" while building monuments, or the "food tradehouse" in case of famine in your city. Just a thought.

- --- - --- - ---- - ---
Quijote - I tilted the mill.

[Keith]

I`d love to see more types of trade too (a lot more, at least 100 :P).
Also, one of the things I didin´t like of Zeus and Emperor was having different tradehouses for each city you were trading with. I`d prefer to have tradehouses shared by all trading cities, this way you could have one tradehouse for wood, another for stones, another for food. So, you can close the "stone tradehouse" while building monuments, or the "food tradehouse" in case of famine in your city. Just a thought.

- --- - --- - ---- - ---
Quijote - I tilted the mill.
The only problem I see there with a unified tradehouse is that they would have to come up with some way to control the amount of goods traded to each city. There are times when you may want to trade more with one city and not the other. In the old games it was simply a matter of adjusting that tradehouse for that specific city. It also allowed the player to see how trade was going with each city by viewing the contents of that tradehouse at a glance without having to go to some menu someplace.
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[Ineti]

Will we be able to trade with other cities like in Pharaoh?

I hope so. Aside from the city and monument building, trading was the part of Pharaoh I enjoyed the most. It took me a while to figure out the ins and outs of the supply yards and such, but once I did, I had a blast.

[EmperorJay]

The only problem I see there with a unified tradehouse is that they would have to come up with some way to control the amount of goods traded to each city. There are times when you may want to trade more with one city and not the other. In the old games it was simply a matter of adjusting that tradehouse for that specific city. It also allowed the player to see how trade was going with each city by viewing the contents of that tradehouse at a glance without having to go to some menu someplace.
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Personally, I wouldn't mind being forced into a menu. In the older games, I usually had 2 to 4 warehouses. 1 or 2 for raw materials and 1 or 2 for finished products. That works 90% of the time for me, even with as much as 6 cities trading. Using the style of Emp and Zeus, I would be forced to use 6 stations plus another few warehouses to store excesses.

I prefer the usage of warehouses for trade, but I can live with the 1 trading station per city system.

[Jayhawk]

Warehouses seem like the proper option, although it might be posible to compromise.

Have larger (un)loading docks where trade caravans and boats stop, with the option to allow certain goods to be traded and other not. From there the distribution goes to the regular warehouses/granaries and from there on to the smaller distribution networks like markets.

I wonder if local farmers, fishers and hunter would be selling of their produce on those same markets.

What I'd love to be able to do, though, is actively create trade options between cities. Start the mining in Aswan and Tura, build copper mines in the Sinai etc. Cities only trading what you made available for them to trade in the first place.

Foreign cities of course would be excempt from this.

[Jaguar]

I find that the trading posts in Emperor and Zeus take up too much space, but I love being able to set different prices for different cities. How about a compromise? Make the posts for each individual city, but make them the same size as a warehouse? I generally have additional warehouse space anyways to hold goods that I am selling, so I can control how much of each good gets sold. The trading post would only have 4 or 8 of a particular good maximum in my cities.

[Keith]

I find that the trading posts in Emperor and Zeus take up too much space, but I love being able to set different prices for different cities. How about a compromise? Make the posts for each individual city, but make them the same size as a warehouse? I generally have additional warehouse space anyways to hold goods that I am selling, so I can control how much of each good gets sold. The trading post would only have 4 or 8 of a particular good maximum in my cities.
Trading posts were generally pretty large. But, then we are thinking that they will be just like the previous games. I'm think that they will be different than wev've seen before so whether trade centers and warehouses are one or two buildings may be a moot point.

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[Keith]

(http://www.civilization.ca/civil/egypt/egcl05p1.html)http://www.civilization.ca/civil/egypt/images/loglife2.gifTrades and crafts

Stone and clay pots comprise one of the most important categories of Egyptian artifacts. They help us understand the evolution of the culture from the Predynastic Period to the end of the pharaonic era. The banks of the Nile provided the mud and clay used to make ceramic ware. Food was cooked in clay pots, which also served as containers for grains, water, wine, beer, flour and oils. Baskets were the other type of container found in the home. They were made from reeds and the leaves of date palms that grew along the Nile.


http://www.civilization.ca/civil/egypt/images/life43.jpg (http://www.civilization.ca/civil/egypt/egcl05p1.html)



Skilled artisans were considered socially superior to common labourers. They learned their art from a master who ensured stylistic continuity in the beautiful objects they created for the living and the dead. Women engaged in weaving (http://www.civilization.ca/civil/egypt/egcl06p.html), perfume making, baking and needlework. Very few artistic creations were signed, and exceptional ability was rewarded through increased social status.

Carpenters



Skilled carpenters manufactured a wide range of products, from roofing beams to furniture and statues. Their tools included saws, axes, chisels, adzes, wooden mallets, stone polishers and bow drills. Since wood suitable for building was scarce in ancient Egypt, it was imported from countries such as Lebanon.



http://www.civilization.ca/civil/egypt/images/life35a.gif (http://www.civilization.ca/civil/egypt/images/life35b.gif)

The carpenter who wields an adze,
He is wearier than a field-labourer;
His field is the timber, his hoe the adze.
There is no end to his labour,
He does more than his arms can do . . .



From Satire of the Trades, a Middle Kingdom text reproduced in Ancient Egyptian Literature, by Miriam Lichtheim Drawing: John Ide



Stonemasons and Sculptors

Sculptors had to adhere to very strict stylistic rules. The stone was first shaped and smoothed by masons using stone hammers. For bas-reliefs, draftsmen outlined images on the stone before a team of sculptors began carving them with copper chisels. A fine abrasive powder was used to polish the stone before the images were painted.



http://www.civilization.ca/civil/egypt/images/life36a.gif (http://www.civilization.ca/civil/egypt/images/life36b.gif)

In this illustration, craftsmen from the Temple of Karnak (http://www.civilization.ca/civil/egypt/egca08e.html) polish and paint a red-granite statue of Thutmosis III, on which they carve an inscription.



I'll describe to you also the mason:
His loins give him pain;
Though he is out in the wind,
He works without a cloak;
His loincloth is a twisted rope
And a string in the rear.

From Satire of the Trades, a Middle Kingdom text reproduced in Ancient Egyptian Literature, by Miriam Lichtheim Drawing: John Ide





The ancient Egyptians produced numerous monumental and life-size stone statues of pharaohs, nobles, gods and goddesses. They presented themselves as proud self-confident people capable of ruling their land and defying their enemies.

Stone vessels were made by shaping the stone and smoothing its exterior with abrasives such as quartz sand. A crank-shaped drill was used to hollow out the interior.

http://www.civilization.ca/civil/egypt/images/life37a.gif (http://www.civilization.ca/civil/egypt/images/life37b.gif)



Bead Making



http://www.civilization.ca/civil/egypt/images/life38a.gif (http://www.civilization.ca/civil/egypt/images/life38b.gif)

Various types of semi-precious stones were used in jewellery (http://www.civilization.ca/civil/egypt/egcl06e.html#jewellery). To make beads, artisans broke stones and rolled them between other stones to shape them. A bow drill was used to drill a hole through the beads, which were then rolled in a recessed receptacle containing an abrasive to refine their shape.



Brickmakers and potters



The word iqdou (Nile mud) was used to designate the profession of the brickmaker and the potter, who used mud from the Nile to make their products.

The brickmaker had one of the more menial occupations in ancient Egypt. To make bricks, Nile mud was mixed with sand, straw and water, slapped into wooden moulds and then slapped out onto the ground to dry in the sun. Bricks were used extensively in ancient Egypt for building everything from peasants' homes to the pharaoh's palaces.



http://www.civilization.ca/civil/egypt/images/life39a.gif (http://www.civilization.ca/civil/egypt/images/life39b.gif)

Potters produced vast quantities of utilitarian vessels. Cow dung, water and straw were mixed with mud to produce clay ready for the potter's wheel. The exterior surface of pots was often covered with a reddish slip and/or decorated using a stylus or comb before the pots were fired in kilns.



http://www.civilization.ca/civil/egypt/images/life40a.gif (http://www.civilization.ca/civil/egypt/images/life40b.gif)

His clothes are stiff with clay,
His girdle is in shreds;
If air enters his nose,
It comes straight from the fire.



From Satire of the Trades, a Middle Kingdom text reproduced in Ancient Egyptian Literature, by Miriam Lichtheim Drawing: John Ide

http://www.civilization.ca/civil/egypt/images/life41a.jpg (http://www.civilization.ca/civil/egypt/egcl05p2.html)

Merchants and Trade



http://www.civilization.ca/civil/egypt/images/life42a.jpg (http://www.civilization.ca/civil/egypt/images/life42b.jpg)

In a good year, the quantity of grain harvested in Egypt far exceeded the needs of the country. The grain exported to neighbouring countries provided a rich source of revenue for the Egyptian Treasury. Egypt's economy functioned on a barter system. In the marketplace, stone weights were used to determine the value of grain and other rations. Egyptian merchants developed an extensive trade network for procuring goods from other countries. Gold from the mines of eastern Nubia, for example, was traded for raw materials or manufactured goods.
http://www.civilization.ca/civil/egypt/images/life52a.jpg

Mistress of the House



Women of all classes could earn wages, own property and employ workers, but their main role was within the family. The title most women had was "mistress of the house". They were considered equal with men before the law, and could sue for damages and divorce.

Musical scenes on murals seem to indicate a predominance of female musicians during the New Kingdom. Music served both secular and religious purposes, with many high-status New Kingdom women holding the position of "chantress" to a local god. Harps, lutes, flutes, oboes, tambourines and sistra (rattles) were the main instruments used.

© Canadian Museum of Civilization Corporation

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[Ken Parker]

Hey Keith, see the tiny type at the bottom of your post, where it says "© Canadian Museum of Civilization Corporation"? They might take issue with your copying and pasting their material. A link with a pulled quote is cool.

[Hanarky]

I am not sure, if I liked the trading system in Zeus and Emperor better than the one in Pharaoh. Sure it was more effective, but for a visual player like me, more boring. And as Jaguar said, the trade posts for every city took up a lot of space. A vivid living trade-and storage center with many different kinds of goods somewhat centralised at the main industrial area and lots of traffic and traders is very eye-pleasing.

What about 2 types of storage yards, the ones for domestic use (delivering only goods to the goods shops and markets) and the other ones, being there for production and trade. Then you could set the production-trade ones to receive only goods or rawmaterial or to store only goods and rawmaterials to sell (and giving them the usual features, how many of each good is stored in them). You could also make a menu, where you could tell the cartpusher what task has priority. Delivering clay to a pitmaker first or flax to a linenmaker. It has always been annoying, when a cartpusher wandered from one end of town to the other to deliver a papyrus roll, while nearby the linenmakers waited for their ressource, stored in the same storage yard. (Well, admitted, bad micromanagement by me, but okay). I only find it kind of stupid to have 20 different storage yards to get a working delivering-and trade system.


From Jayawk:
Have larger (un)loading docks where trade caravans and boats stop, with the option to allow certain goods to be traded and other not. From there the distribution goes to the regular warehouses/granaries and from there on to the smaller distribution networks like markets.

That's basically what I try to say, when I only could express better :)

From Jaguar:
...but I love being able to set different prices for different cities

now I think, there should be a possibility to set prices for each city separately in a trade screen with that city. All cities can fetch the same goods (provided the buy them) from the same warehouse, but the prices paid for them would be adjusted by the player.

Hanrky :)

[Keith]

Hey Keith, see the tiny type at the bottom of your post, where it says "© Canadian Museum of Civilization Corporation"? They might take issue with your copying and pasting their material. A link with a pulled quote is cool.I checked their legalese (http://www.civilization.ca/import_e.html) beforehand:


Non-commercial Reproduction

Information on this site has been posted with the intent that it be readily available for personal and private non-commercial use and may be reproduced, in part or in whole and by any means, without charge or further permission from the CMCC. We ask only that:

Users exercise due diligence in ensuring the accuracy of the materials reproduced;
The CMCC be identified as the source institution;
Copyright and other proprietary notices be kept intact with the material, and,
The reproduction is not represented as an official version of the materials reproduced, nor as having been made, in affiliation with or with the endorsement of the CMCC.
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[Jayhawk]

I'm pretty sure they'll see Tilted Mill as a commercial organisation...

[G-Force]

They didn't post it, and they're not using it so I think they are in the clear :)

G-Force

[Keith]

I'm pretty sure they'll see Tilted Mill as a commercial organisation...
As pointed out, they didn't post it. I'm not using it for commercial purposes, and if they were to rule out posting the information anywhere else they'd pretty much rule out the entire internet because all ISPs could be considered a commercial organization.

And, they do have a section in their legal statement that allows commercial organizations to use the information if they request permission, which I have passed along to TM.
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[vovan]

Now all of the above discussion assumes, it seems to me, that the trading will be done the same way as before. I wonder if that is the case, actually - if we will basically have caravans/ships coming into the city, heading for some sort of storage space, and then trading there. I think the system was alright, but my main beef with it was that the traders would decide whether they will be trading or not when they entered the city, and never checked the warehouses again. It wasn't a big deal, when the caravans came into the city, but by the time they got to the warehouse, it was already empty, but when they entered the city and the warehouse was empty, and they decided to go through without a stop, and just passed by a warehouse that has by now been filled, that annoyed me to no end. :)

[Caesar Alan]

From some of the screenshots, it looks pretty certain that we will be having trade caravans (and therefore, presumably trade ships). In the light of that, I'd have to say that I'd welcome some slightly improved AI for the traders. I'm sure I'll cope either way, though :D

[vovan]

Hmmm, I don't recall seeing any caravans on the screenshots. Would appreciate it if you could show me one of those. :)http://www.tiltedmill.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

[vovan]

Ah, well I found a screenie of a packed mule on Gamespot, that could be a trader I guess. :)

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/screen0/920314_20040514_screen007.jpg

And this, too seems to show some caravans:

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/screen0/920314_20040514_screen017.jpg

And here's what seems to be a granary:

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/screen0/920314_20040514_screen012.jpg

[Jayhawk]

As pointed out, they didn't post it.
It's still posted on their site, Keith, so it depends on how strictly the Canadian Museum of Civilization Corporation handle the copyright issues.

I noticed you pasted half their site on these boards, ;) however, I'm going to leave arguing about this to TM.

[Keith]

It's still posted on their site, Keith, so it depends on how strictly the Canadian Museum of Civilization Corporation handle the copyright issues.

I noticed you pasted half their site on these boards, ;) however, I'm going to leave arguing about this to TM.Credit was given as per the museum's requirements and since TM didn't post it TM didn't feel there would be a problem. TM said can't use any of it, at least not without receiving permission from the museum as per museum's copyright section on commercial usage. I'm sure it would have been removed otherwise. It was posted for the edification of the people like Miut and others that enjoy reading such things.
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[Jayhawk]

A link would have done the same wouldn't it?

[Miut]

Could be a granery, but wealthier houses stored their own grain in such structures on the roof of their homes, you know...

[Keith]

Could be a granery, but wealthier houses stored their own grain in such structures on the roof of their homes, you know...
However, the picture of that wealthy residence in the other thread shows the residential granaries next to the home on what appears to be ground level. So apparently it wasn't true in all cases.

http://www.tiltedmill.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1194&postcount=29

http://www.tiltedmill.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1314&postcount=40

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[Miut]

Could that be explained by the differences between town and country houses? I note that one has a wall, yet the CoTN one doesn't.. .or maybe it is the degree of wealth that means they have external private graneries - and walled privacy??

[Keith]

Could that be explained by the differences between town and country houses? I note that one has a wall, yet the CoTN one doesn't.. .or maybe it is the degree of wealth that means they have external private graneries - and walled privacy??
I'm sure there were all sorts of design arrangements. I don't believe the Egyptians were into cookie-cutter housing design like we have today. ;) I would think that only the wealthier people could afford items like privacy walls around their homes.

I think the placement of the storage silos or granaries was a matter of land and space. Since the wealthier people more than likely had larger residences on larger tracts of land they could easily place them along side the home, while the average working stiff in crowded cities had to make do with a much smaller more public space and a roof top silo/granary would probably make more sense.
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[Jayhawk]

Having it on the roof probably also made it less likely to be borrowed by your neighbours. Especially if you didn't have a wall around you yard.

[Ovidius]

About the city-specific trade centres taking up too much space, it would be cool if there were a market area, to which traders would come, and as your city grew and as you traded more you would need to expand it to cope with the volume of goods. Goods could be stored in market warehouses, but the warehouses and market function as one, with you only having to get the goods to the market warehouses. But it wouldn't be built like, say, the market in Emperor with fixed spaces for specific additions, but more like SimCity's (I don't know which version - I haven't played it in ages) harbour and airport. I don't know how workable something like that is, but if it isn't possible, then maybe if you could build a warehouse and then expand it, either one 'tile' at a time or even by just building another warehouse adjacent to it (but instead of two warehouses, they function as one larger one).

But I must say, I don't really mind the city-specific trade centres.

[Afterburner]

It's still posted on their site, Keith, so it depends on how strictly the Canadian Museum of Civilization Corporation handle the copyright issues.

Since a lot of what I do for a living involves copyright law, let me settle everyone down by saying that Keith's analysis is correct.

Keith posted the info, not Tilted Mill.

By any reasonable criteria you care to use, Keith did not have a commercial purpose in mind when he posted the info.

The fact that Keith posted the info on a web forum administered by Tilted Mill doesn't give it a commercial purpose, regardless of whether or not Tilted Mill is a commercial entity.

Even if Keith's analysis was wrong, and the Canadian Museum of Civilization wanted to take action, the first thing they would have to do would be to send a letter in compliance with the Digital Millenium Copyright Act to whoever actually owns and operates the servers on which the web forum runs and operates. The letter would request that the copyrighted material be removed. At that point, all the admins of the forum would need to do to stay in compliance with American copyright laws would be to delete the threads containing the copyrighted info.

The notion that the museum would come in, guns blazing, to sue Tilted Mill for copyright infractions, all without any sort of prior warning, is a bogus notion spread by movies and TV. Lawsuits are what happen when the lawyers determine that letter writing won't work.

In the absence of such letters, it is safe to assume that the Canadian Museum of Civilization doesn't care. Especially given that their own legalese specifically allows for non-commercial usage of their info.

[G-Force]

Discussion closed :)

[Elvenwarrior2001]

I have a confession to make...I lost track of what that conversation was about... :o Okay...so I didn't pay real close attention... :o

Elven

[EmperorJay]

As we don't know yet how the caravans and ships will work in the game, I'd like to make a request. In older games, they were always passing through and that was it while I think that in Ancient Egypt traders would be in a city for a day or two, maybe even waiting until some things were ready.

For example, if a trader comes to buy grain and he arrives before the harvest, would he leave again or wait another day until the harvest is done?

[Nero Would]

In older games, they were always passing through and that was it while I think that in Ancient Egypt traders would be in a city for a day or two, maybe even waiting until some things were ready.

For example, if a trader comes to buy grain and he arrives before the harvest, would he leave again or wait another day until the harvest is done?
Good point EmperorJay. It can be frustrating when a trader leaves just days before the goods you want him to buy are ready. There doesn't seem to be much harm in having the trader wait a few extra days if he hasn't already bought as much as he can.

[G-Force]

Except if he buys 2 things and has bought all of product A and is now waiting for B which you don't have enough of to meet his demand. How long will he wait???

Perhaps a game month waiting is fair, but then again if it is a large map it would take him have a month to get accross.

G-Force

[Uatch-Khepheru]

Hmm, what if you could bribe a trader to show you other trade routes, give you increased business, or whatever. That would add a bit of dynamics to teh trading system, then you would have the other overlords vying for the trader's attention. Another thing would be trade embargos, like if you piss off a particular city, they will stop trading with you (obviously), but then they can convince their allies to do the same, and you could convince yours to stop trading with them, which would add strategy to warfare, I would imagine.

[vovan]

Yay, back on topic! :)

I don't know, I wouldn't like the traders to actually hang out in my city waiting for the goods. It would almost be too easy, I think, then. However, like I said somewhere before, I would like their AI improved somewhat, so they don't pass by a warehouse that had been filled after they entered the city, and don't even bother with it.

[Keith]

While we still don't know, it is possible that the traders will also have a certain amount of "intelligence" similar to the citizens of the game. If that is true they may not make journeys until a specific item they seek is harvested or available. Caravans for grain probalby would time their arrivals for just after the harvest. Caravans would take months to travel between points so the monthly caravans depicted in Pharaoh were not that historic. We have to stop thinking in terms of what we've seen in Pharaoh.

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[vovan]

Ah, but then I don't know what terms to think in. :) Can only compare to the things I've played before, like Pharaoh, Emperor, SimCity, Tropico. :)

[Keith]

That's the whole point, we don't know. So all the examples of how things went before will be of little use since the devs have promised us something different than we've had before.
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[vovan]

That's the whole point, we don't know. So all the examples of how things went before will be of little use since the devs have promised us something different than we've had before.

But speculation is so much fun. :) We wouldn't have anything else to talk about otherwise. :)

Maybe they should release a few more screenies for us to sink our teeth in... :D

[Keith]

We just have to "think outside the box" in terms of what we have seen in the old games.

I'd like to see a video of some actual gameplay.
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[Elvenwarrior2001]

I'd like to see some cutscenes too. ;) But alas...that's not until the game is released...

Elven

[vovan]

I'd like to see some cutscenes too.

I, personally don't like to see cutscenes before the game is released. They often release the intro movie on sites, like Gamespot, just before, or just as the game is released... It sorta spoils the surprise for me a little, so I don't watch em. :)

[Keith]

I'm not talking cutscenes, but rather actual video of game play similar to some of those made for Rome: Total War.
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[Elvenwarrior2001]

He was quoting me, he knew what you meant. ;) And yeah Vovan, I agree actually. I just like them in the game. Which means...I need to get the game all the sooner. ;) Hehe.

Elven

[vovan]

I'm not talking cutscenes, but rather actual video of game play
Eh, I think when Elven said "I'd like to see some cutscenes too", he meant he'd like to see some cutscenes too, as in: in addition to gameplay videos - not that he'd like to see some cutscenes, too, as in: as well as you, Keith. :)

[vovan]

He was quoting me, he knew what you meant.

Ack. :eek: General confusion. There I was thinking he knew I knew what he meant, and yet his post could also be interpreted as if he didn't know I knew what he meant.

Heheh :D

But we are going off-topic again. Now where were we? Ah yes, trade...

So, we were talking about conquest in that other thread, and it seems to me that the general idea is that one will be able to build up several cities at the same time? Like, when you conquer a city, you could spend sime time away from your main city, and build-up the vassal city some. Now, I wonder how trade would be handled in this case. I guess while you are away, another governor would "take over" your original city, so that you cannot command the caravans between the two, despite actually technically having control over both cities? It would make sense if you could, though it seems would almost make trade too easy.

[Elvenwarrior2001]

You're and odd cat. Putting it back on topic? Whoa! That's just...weird. ;)

Elven

[G-Force]

You make a valid point Vovan, as we are Pharaoh why can't we dictate what wich city hasto trade. And while we're doing that, how bout some annual tribute from all the cities in our empire ( oh and we can choose the tribute type offcourse)

G-Force

[EmperorJay]

If people have their own will, won't traders have so too? And traders go for the best price and the best price is in the city with the most demand, so if you leave a city with a shortage of pottery, the increased demand by the people will attract traders anyway...

Ok, now I'm starting to overrate the system of real people I think! :p

[vovan]

If people have their own will, won't traders have so too? And traders go for the best price and the best price is in the city with the most demand, so if you leave a city with a shortage of pottery, the increased demand by the people will attract traders anyway...

Well, that may be true in a perfectly free market system, but my point, on which G-Force elaborated some, was this:

Suppose you are a Pharaoh. And you have two cities. Now, the one city is in dire need of food (and money), while the other is very prosperous, and can feed itself, as well as a couple more cities - its granaries are just overflowing. Now, if the cities weren't under the control of the same ruler, then it would make sense that the latter city would sell food to the former city, thus potentially putting it deep in debt. Recall however, that you rule over both cities. Thus, it would actually make sense to request for the food to be moved from the prosperous city to the famine-stricken city.

[EmperorJay]

Ahh..Like that! :) If I were a ruler I would certainly make sure that no cities have shortages. They don't need to be all the same though, but thinking about it, if you really can control multiple cities it doesn't make sense that the ability to give such orders is not included.

[Miut]

Er.. correct me if I am wrong, but in Pharaoh didn't the Big Boss demand went sent food to cities suffering famines anyway??

[EmperorJay]

I believe so, but weren't those "requests" scripted?

[vovan]

Er.. correct me if I am wrong, but in Pharaoh didn't the Big Boss demand went sent food to cities suffering famines anyway??

No, you are correct. But what I'm saying is that if you are able to control several cities, wouldn't it make sense that you, as the player, should be able to do that?

PS: Yay for 100. :)

[Miut]

Vovan, very true. ;) Yay for 100 whats? Posts? Is that what it takes to become Senior? :rolleyes: Congrats. Gosh, we are all busy little bees here, aren't we? :cool:

[Elvenwarrior2001]

Pharoah had total control over the food. Look at the Bible. It's actually a historical document, not just a religious document. Pharaoah took control of the food supplies and put them in charge of his second (Joesph). So it definitely was something that Pharoah could and did do.

Elven

[Miut]

Pharaoh's administration took care of the harvests - remember that the largest land owner at the time of Akhenaten was the temple of Amun and the priesthood. ;) They actually controlled the grain, which was part of what Akhenaten's rebellion was against, but only part of it.. He did believe in the Aten even before he took his new name and headed for his new capital and new religion. The remains of a temple of his built at, in or near Karnak where found inside a pylon that was damaged I think by earthquake and used as a rubble in-fill. They have pieced it together using computer software as that's the only way they can do it each piece is so small.

But as long as the priests had enough, they weren't about to deny Pharaoh's requests to send grain to relieve famine victims I reckon.

[vovan]

Which all boils down to this: you, as a player, should be able to make requests from other cities for stuff. :D Then again, you could in the previous games, too, though it would lower their attitude towards you. :)

[Miut]

Not actually Off Topic...
Y'know, one thing I have always felt lacking in games that you role play in, is the fact the designers do these cool inn and so on and you amass all this loot killing monsters, saving people from infestations of giant scorpions and whatever in their basements, and the armor shop has nada, zero, zip worth buying - and that dosh is burning a hole in your pockets! I would love the opportunity to spend that money hiring a room for the night, buying a beer or a meal.

Should say seeing as how the job I hoped to get here hasn't worked out and I am left with time on my hands for writing and getting bored, my son, 19 years old, and I have been playing games on a PS2 - Baldur's Gate etc. When I said all the above, he sniffs at me and says, "It isn't real role playing, Mum."

I don't care! I want to buy a beer, a meal, go to the public baths, anything but just let that dosh burn a hole in my pocket.

It would be so nice if we could do that in this game. I would like to see more of the real role playing assimilated into games so they become more real for us.
Any chance we might, as Pharaoh, get to be at a banquet and eat? Or follow a trader to the inn and see him hire a room while his cargo is unloaded and sold? See why "The shore leave in this town is so boring." or not, to quote our Pharaoh ship traders. :D

EDIT: Um, well, not spend the dosh, but spend the virtual debens the goods are worth. ;)

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[EmperorJay]

I would like some more role play elements, I would be all for it really. But do make it optional, when I have the time, I would be doing as much as I can as you describe it, but when I'm short on time, no need for a fancy visit in an inn with a trader. :)

[Eddy]

You know Miut, I like that idea. I always hated how in an RPG I could hack and slash, but all I could buy was weaponry and such. How about a little carousing around town so to speak? Or maybe buying a house and having a little business when I am tired of the adventuring life. Not that I am saying these should be in CotN, but it would be interesting in an RPG.

[Bradius]

Humm, an interesting Idea Muit. I doubt it will be possible. I tend to be a bit more of a macro city builder myself anyway. However, now that I think about it, it sure would be cool to be able to go "into" the houses, buildings and monuments (especially the monuments). I even think it could be cool if you could direct or customize parts of the monument through some type of interactive tool. Humm...ponder...ponder..ponder... :)