Compatibility of future TM CBs

[Son of Moose]

Here is a potentially awesome concept which I truly hope is technologically possible ...

Would it be possible to design the follow-up games to CotN (possibly featuring the Greek and the Roman cultures) as not only separate (self-standing) products but also as potential fully-priced add-ons (expansion packs) to CotN?

If this were possible, one could have the option of playing (at least) THREE different cultures within a single platform. My earlier mentioned TWO CITY (on a single map) option would become much more interesting!! :cool: One could actually see how different cultures would be able to interact with each other. :D This would be a truly (r)evolutionary development for the CB genre.

I fully realise that there might be some awesome technical issues to overcome --- but the end-product would be stupendous. For instance, it would obviously be necessary to release an update for CotN (and its immediate successor) to reflect any improvements made in the EE game engine. (Maxis included a series of such patches in their final "Makin Magic" expansion pack so that all The Sims series were "up-to-date"). In addition, a truly gigantic map would have to be an option for one to derive maximum benefit from this massive increase in the capacity of the game(s).

Imho, a large degree of the success of The Sims is due to the compatibility of the (?) 7 add-ons (expansion packs) with the original so that the final product probably is much greater than the sum of the originals. I would really like to see this option with the new CB genre ... :D Humans (and probably gamers in particular) are strange creatures who often seem to be naturally attracted to a product that is BIG (or at least promises to be BIG). I am sure that it has a lot to do with hype --- and I am convinced that the above format would elicit much hype in the community.

I thought that I would conclude with one last personal preference. Perhaps TM could release a separate expansion pack (or patch if they are feeling especially generous) that might permit an increased level of on-screen military activity. In this way, the militarists would be happy with this "enhanced" version of the game and the non-militarists would also be content with the current version of it.

I would be REALLY interested to receive feedback on this suggestion ...

With kindest regards

[Keith]

Nice idea. I had the similar one 3 months ago. ;) :D

http://www.tiltedmill.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25

[Son of Moose]

Keith:

Many thanks for the reply. So sorry that I didn't notice it!! :o Still (with beta testing ahead and so many new members joining the community) this might be a good time to reactivate discussion around this topic. :D

With kindest regards

[Son of Moose]

I see that (amongst many other good ideas raised by our fellow members) this thread also included my initial concept of the "limitless RTS-City Builder hybrid". ;)

However, if TM were able to meet the suggestions included in this thread, my desire for a "limitless RTS-City Builder hybrid" would pretty well be met. :D I really think that this option would represent a "win-win" situation for all followers of the CB (and maybe RTS) genre. :eek: --- at the possibilities of this!!

[Keith]

In reality all the citybuilders are a type of RTS game already. You don't play them in "turns" and something is always happening on the map while you are occupied with something else elsewhere.

[Son of Moose]

Indeed. :) In addition, in line with the comments posted in another thread, I would strongly advise that this multi-compatible mega-CB game remains as a single player option. A suitably enhanced ai should add a sufficient degree of variation and challenge to satisfy most players.

[However, if a sufficient number of the community were to clamour for MP, I suppose that some suitable format could be introduced. As there would be no "rushing" in this game, it might not so readily appeal to those who play MP anyway. ;) ]

[Keith]

Well, that was the case with Emperor. People had lobbied for MP for a number of years on the Imps old board it went over with a thud when it was finally implemented in Emperor. I'll admit though that the Imps probably had much less of a hand in developing Emperor and they might have done it differently. At the time their staff was working on Lords 3.

[mouse]

Well I see a couple of problems with this idea ;) The first problem is city builders are strange critters and begin to get bored with a game that is the same with just a new face/civiliaztion.You can see that with people asking is CotN just Pharaoh in 3D :D Second the developers get bored with doing the same game with a different face. I believe that's why Impressions turned Cleo over to Breakaway. Personally I would love to see a new city builder game every year but there have to be changes to the game and the engine to keep games fresh and exciting ;)

[Son of Moose]

Mouse:

I certainly appreciate and understand your point. :) However, there are certainly sufficient similarities (especially in the general range of "utility" buildings appearing in the games) for this concept to have worked well with Caesar3, Pharaoh and Zeus. [Emperor was slightly different --- although it too could possibly have also been included in the mega-package (please refer to next paragraph)].

Perhaps my earlier suggestion of an inclusive "up-date" patch to be included with the next game in the series might serve to alleviate the boredom factor --- insofar as one would in fact to able to purchase TWO "new" games for the price of one. :cool: In addition, any improvements appearing in the game engine for a newer game could (hopefully) thereby be readily incorporated into the older game. (This would provide gamers with an additional incentive to buy the newer game!! :p ).

It is good that you have raised this issue --- but hopefully there are solutions to be found that could in fact further enhance the whole concept ... :D

[mouse]

Zeus was very different form C3, Pharaoh/Cleo :D Though I enjoyed it not all city builders felt the same way. Emperor should have been my dream game since it was based in China (a favorite civilization) and was again different. But I felt that it wasn't as enjoyable as C3 it was too easy in many ways. Expansion packs to me are kind of ho hum let's see what's new but lacking the excitment of a new game ;)

BTW had to give you someone to talk to besides Keith and give you another view point to think about too :D What I hate about expansion packs is knowing exactly how the game works there isn't the excitment of having to learn the ins and outs of the game though there maybe chnages enough to figure out it usually uses the same basics.

What I want in a city builder is game that won't let me sleep and if I do sleep I'm dreaming about how to do better (C3 and Pharaoh had little people running through my dreams) :D

[Son of Moose]

Thanks for the feedback Mouse --- great to have someone else to chat with!! :D

You raise an extremely important point. Somehow TM will have to discard the "Expansion Pack" tag if this series is to be a huge marketing success --- although, as before, each civilization might well have its own genuine single expansion pack (e.g. Cleopatra for Pharaoh). The concept of a "self-standing" follow-up game that can readily serve as a fully-functional expansion to an existing game is possibly new. (I don't know about this and would welcome any feedback in this regard).

Hopefully the fans would readily "buy into" this concept --- especially if there is genuinely new content (included as a patch) for the older game that can cause it to play slightly differently. As stated before this would provide "double value for your buck" ...

[tobing]

Maybe 'Cossacks' is an example, there are two addons, which are standalone programs but are so close to the first game that I would call them 'addon' instead of 'new'. Then again, you don't need the first game to play the second, and if you intall both you can play both of them, the second game does not change the first.

Actually, I don't like an addon too much that significantly changes the behaviour of my game, especially when I already got used to it. There are some examples of this, though, and mostly the new gameplay was intended or even necessary to correct some gameplay issues of the original game.

Something comes to my mind: maybe the extension of GothicII is an example. This addon integrates so closely into the original game that you can't even use savegames, you have to start a new career. The reason is, that this is an RPG and tells a story, which already ends in the first game. So the addon adds a new side story which is seamlessly integrated into the first one, but the changes are significant enough to force a new beginning.

[Son of Moose]

Tobing:

Thanks for the information regarding Cossacks. Seen them in the shop but haven't bought them. (Largely due to restricted personal finances :( ).

It might be best to be able to retain your old saves so that you can continue with these games making use of the new features included in the "Add-on". This would be yet another way of increasing the value of the "Add-on". Again another interesting topic requiring further feedback ... :)

[Cironir]

Speaking of expansion packs: Personally, as a customer, I really appreciate "gold" editions of games once an expansion comes out (not years later, ideally). Frequently, there's a good chance that I first learn about a non-mainstream title when the expansion pack is released, but then I shy away from buying the original came for thirty Euro and the expansion for another thirty Euro, though I'd not mind paying forty bucks for a "bundle", the "gold" version.

Of course, those are decisions made by publishers, not developers. :)

[Son of Moose]

Yes --- these "combo-packs" certainly do provide great value for money. Many of my games are Gold Editions for this very reason. :)

[tobing]

My problem with Gold-Packs is that I have to wait until the Gold-Pack is published. More often than not this is too much strain for my patience, so I do not own too many Gold-Packs...

[Cironir]

I really only buy gold editions of games that I missed when they originally came out -- those are almost always games that I had not been anticipating or simply didn't know about. Recent examples are Gothic 2 and Europa 1400. If I know about a game and look forward to it, there's no way I could muster the patience to wait for a budget version! :)

I think the only full-releases I'll buy in the next six months are CotN, Medieval Lords, Locomotion, Dungeon Lords, and possibly Rome: Total War and Pirates! 2. I'll wait for reviews of the latter two, though. Hmm, perhaps Zoo Tycoon 2 and Kohan 2, too, but not too sure about those yet, but will probably wait 'til they drop in price. Chances are that I'll be busy with CotN anyway, so I won't have time or need for many other titles.

[EmperorJay]

FYI, the Rome Total War demo has been released. Perhaps you don't have to wait on the review :) .

[tobing]

Cironir: Didn't you miss Settlers V? That's one I'm also looking forward to. But I'm quite sure that I'll wait a few days when that appears in store, to see what people have to say about it. My other favourite is Medieval Lords also, and CotN of course. No more time to spend on games :D .

[Cironir]

Ooh, I didn't know there was a demo of R:TW yet! I'll download that tonight while I sleep (ISDN only). Thanks! :)

Settlers V ... I thought about it, but I found Settlers IV rather disappointing, so I don't know if I want to get the sequel. I've not read a lot about it, though. I pre-ordered Medieval Lords last week, so I should get it on Friday, hopefully. I was surprised to see that it comes out in Germany two months(!) before the English version is released, especially since it's made by a French developer.

[tobing]

...Settlers V ... I thought about it, but I found Settlers IV rather disappointing, so I don't know if I want to get the sequel...
Same goes for me, that's why I'm going to wait some days. Or weeks, depends. But this one promises to be different, and hopefully better.

[Traxia]

Thank you for updating me on what's going to be out there in the next few months.

Up till now I thought the only one to look forward to (apart from cotn) was Sims 2... how wrong can one girl be?

And the problem with Settlers games is that I can only ever get up to a point and then I can't go any further. With city builders usually I can complete the level, even if I have a few false starts.

Then again I never completed Pharaoh or Caesar III... (People ALWAYS riot on me in Caesar...)

[tobing]

I'm also looking forward to Medieval Lords, coming out this year I think. Has already been mentioned a few times in this forum. Well, in that case I'll also wait some days to see what people have to say about it.

[Son of Moose]

Sorry to bump this thread to the top of the list :( --- but I was wondering whether any of our illustrious members might be able to think of ways in which it might well be possible for TM to develop the above type of multi-compatible mega-CB game. This has possibly become more pressing in view of all the rival games --- including the seemingly generic game described in another thread.

Don't you think that it would be a great idea if all the future TM CB games could become part of an even "greater whole"? :D I have always tried to look at the "bigger picture" and feel that this could be an extremely interesting way for TM to go. Any more takers ... ;)

With kindest regards

[Traxia]

The easiest way to do this (assuming that they use C++ and C++ is used like Java) would be to have a universal interface between game aspects.

Basically what you do is you have a layer between game engine and menu options that functions as a kind of theme if you will. Then you interchange themes so that you esentially have different buildings people and gods but the same AI. This layer can be made up of different layers depending on how the game is written.

Also you have interfaces between themes so you can have interactivity between the themes, thus expanding the gameplay beyond simply a menu to several different individual executable files. For instance greek traders coming to your egyptian city or Exploring what would happen if ancient egypt had been around fully in the Roman era and so on. Perhaps if you get a Greek noble staying in your city, you can build specific greek buildings to help them acclimatise and represent them taking some of their culture with them (think china town)

You'd have to get an official's opinion on this theory. I'm a student programmer so things like size time and money don't apply to me :D

Certainly would be interesting though...

It all depends on how the game has been designed.

It's hard to make a none modulated program into a component piece half way through development.

[Son of Moose]

Traxia:

Thank you so much for this detailed reply. Although somewhat technically challenged (unfortunately I do not have any programming experience --- although at times like this I really wish that I had :( ), I certainly understand the principles involved. Therefore you have really produced a singularly masterful reply!! :)

I would therefore really be interested in hearing from someone at TM whether this is a viable option. Perhaps they might even be able to tinker with the CotN interface AFTER they have released it in order to permit this.

You have also neatly highlighted the many possible (and historically appropriate) relationships that could exist between the 3 major Mediterranean cultures (Egyptians, Greeks and Romans). :)

Perhaps there are other members who can take this fascinating theme even further ... Maybe Traxia can set her imagination free and see where her thoughts take her in this regard ...

[Little von]

FYI, the Rome Total War demo has been released. Perhaps you don't have to wait on the review :) .


I'm going to DL that demo tonight while I sleep (yep, just a DU connection here and it's a BIG file :P)

The reviews I have read from people I know and trust have not been exactly glowing, though. Too much like MTW, but without the realism as far as the unit combat/movement goes. :(

Getting back to expansions/add ons: I thought MTW VI: Viking Invasion, was a fantastic expansion for MTW. Not only were many new factions, units and building included, a whole new campaign map and historical era were added..., plus with the final VI patch the expansion was like one giant patch that fixed many of the problems that had been plaguing MTW since it was released.

Nope, nothing wrong with paying for an expansion when it is something similar, yet new and different like VI was for MTW. Much the same could be said for the Pharaoh expansion called Cleopatra.

Maybe it is just a matter of how much they can ask for a retail price that causes companies to dump an old engine/game play style for inventing a new one. I dunno...., if that is the case, it sure did not work well for Imps and L3. :P

[tobing]

A last comment before I depart for a short week of vacation.

Let's just let the developers at TM get CotN ready for us to play before they think about expansions.

About modules: Although what Traxia said is of course feasible the question is, why should it be done that way? Usually you expect an expansion to be not only more campaigns and more/other graphics, but also new features of the game engine or maybe some fresh look. That's the point where things become difficult: If you want to design for exchangeable modules you have to preview everything and define the interfaces right from the beginning. Which is hard and sometimes impossible. So the usual way of expansions being more or less complete updates of the program and graphics and campaigns looks more feasible. Well, that's if you want to have interchangeable modules.

What can be done easier is just really extend the first game the way it has been done with pharaoh: provide a new program (containing game engine 2.0) which can play all the missions of the first version, but also contains new features which are exploited in more campaigns. This could mean that you get another culture next to egyptians and maybe you could even have people of both cultures on one map.

One question is, should it be possible to play the second culture alone? So should it look like two games which merge themselves when installed on the same PC? That's tricky, but comes close to the original idea of modules. Next expansion/program could add amother culture, and you play all those which are installed. Simultaneously. The developers just have to make sure that everything works fine, be there one culture, two of them or all three. Tricky, but possible. At least technically. I doubt that it does make very much sense in terms of gameplay, so this has to be carefully designed and thought about.

Well, I have been thinking a lot about game development again, thank you for this inspiration. I'll take all this with me and maybe I think about it and bring some new ideas next week, have a good time until then (you certainly have) and enjoy this marvellous forum!

See you soon

[Traxia]

*floating on wings of appreciation*

Ok back to earth...

Like I said changing an interface after a game is released is quite difficult.

However I'm hoping that the TM team had the sense to put a layer or two between engine and game. IF they did then it would make the interfacing easier. I don't know fully how C++ works as I am a Java Programmer (One of the best in my year :D) but in theory you can add the idea of an interface in quite late in development as long as you can decide on the interface. It might just access certain variables in the code or even just be empty method names at this point. Then in a patch or an expansion they can activate these 'redundant' methods and thus have interconnectivity.

*thinks for a bit*

Dunno if this is possible but...

How I would do it would be to add a layer that interacts with the original game and the expansion/stand alone... this handles the cross-over buildings and people and provides a conduit between the two games. If you did that then you could have two different interfaces between the two seperate modules and it wouldn't matter too much if you didn't implement anything this time around. (Kinda like two different pipe ends). Rewrite the menu module because again I assume that's seperate so it's easy to change for updates and expansions. Use existing connections between the game engine and the main program for both programs Get a kind of shared data/files or something going. Possibly a flag to say which game it belonged in...

It would need serious thought....

Oh and for the non programming orientated

There are a few analogies that our lecturer taught us to get the idea of modules and layers and interfaces across. I shall try to remember them.

Layers are like a cake. If you do it right you can use the same base and top and still have any flavour you want.

Interfaces are like locks and keys. Things with the same interface have the same lock. To use the interface you need the same key.

Modules are like building blocks. They should be able to exist on their own and as part of a bigger structure.

[IC5]

The multiplay addition in Emperor was the best solution/implementation for game which had never been originally (e.g. Caesar3) coded or designed w/ multiplay in mind. At least that's my unbiased opinion, as the former producer on Emperor.

[Traxia]

Let's just let the developers at TM get CotN ready for us to play before they think about expansions.

Unfortunately you have to think about these things now to make them possible in the future...

About modules: Although what Traxia said is of course feasible the question is, why should it be done that way? Usually you expect an expansion to be not only more campaigns and more/other graphics, but also new features of the game engine or maybe some fresh look.

Because modules is what object orientated programming (C++, Java) is all about. If you DON'T do modules with C++ then you are missing the point of the language and you might as well be using C. If there is an engine update you don't want to have to supply another copy of the program in the expansion/patch, you want to swap out the new bit/engine and stick in the new code. Otherwise you change the engine to fix a spark plug.


That's the point where things become difficult: If you want to design for exchangeable modules you have to preview everything and define the interfaces right from the beginning. Which is hard and sometimes impossible. So the usual way of expansions being more or less complete updates of the program and graphics and campaigns looks more feasible. Well, that's if you want to have interchangeable modules.

This was posted after I started my post so maybe it's been answered previously. I have no experience in the game industry. I don't know how it works. This gives me both a serious disadvantage because I don't know what has been tried and failed and an advantage of not doing it like the person before me.

As far as I understand it, you'll only need bolt ons, not complete updates. Provided you can patch the original COTN beforehand if you can't sort it out in time.

What can be done easier is just really extend the first game the way it has been done with pharaoh: provide a new program (containing game engine 2.0) which can play all the missions of the first version, but also contains new features which are exploited in more campaigns. This could mean that you get another culture next to egyptians and maybe you could even have people of both cultures on one map.

Yeah but what we are talking about (as far as I understand it) is being able to have the greeks and romans add onto the existing campaigns...

One question is, should it be possible to play the second culture alone? So should it look like two games which merge themselves when installed on the same PC? That's tricky, but comes close to the original idea of modules. Next expansion/program could add amother culture, and you play all those which are installed. Simultaneously. The developers just have to make sure that everything works fine, be there one culture, two of them or all three. Tricky, but possible. At least technically. I doubt that it does make very much sense in terms of gameplay, so this has to be carefully designed and thought about.

This is more to my way of thinking. A good example it Catz and Dogz. When you install both of them they become Petz and interact with each other. We are talking about a game that is easily 10 years old. If they can do it so can we :D

Have a nice holiday and we shall discuss this more when you get back....

[Son of Moose]

Traxia and Tobing:

Thank you so much for this most helpful and stimulating debate. It is really great to learn that my concept of a multi-compatible mega-CB game is at least technically feasible. I suppose that the expression "the devil is in the detail" is fairly apt here.

Indeed, my idea was to have the follow-up game as EITHER a self-standing (separate) game (in case some people were silly enough not to wish to purchase CotN :eek: --- unfortunately, as Mr Gates now knows, we cannot have conditional selling) OR as the envisaged "add-on" game(s). Hopefully this "add-on" game(s) would so increase the playability of the original product that all players would desire to link it to the original. :D It would be highly possible that this option would also lead to substantially enhanced sales of the original game (CotN) as the broader gaming community learnt about this development.

I WOULD BE REALLY INTERESTED TO HEAR FURTHER COMMENTS ABOUT:

# Additional technical aspects that would need to be considered in order for this proposed multi-compatible mega-CB game to become a reality.

# Additional (and compelling --- for "The-Powers-That-Be" at TM) ideas as to how this concept could be maximally exploited.

I am sorry to seem prescriptive but it would be really great to expand upon Traxia's (in particular) ideas in order to develop a viable strategy. :D

With kindest regards

[Traxia]

Well I want to be a games programmer so I'd better put my hand in :D

Now the major flaw I have is that I think in Java and don't program in C++ so any solution I come up with will be Java based. This means that feasibility wise it should work in theory but then so should communism. Also without knowing the exact structure of the program code itself (and I do not propose TM post this) anything we come up with will be based on intelligent (hopefully) guesswork and assumptions based on what I've learned so far at Uni. That all depends on whether I learnt it right of course :)

First thing that we have to consider is System Specifications. When designing a game you need to make sure it'll run on as many systems as possible to widen your clientel. No use making a game that'll only run on a high end pc because only a lucky few have them.

I've written my idea down in a webpage on my site. There is no direct link from the microsite so you'll have to go direct:
http://www.purpledragonsoftware.com/cotn/idea.php

Let me know what you think. Then we can discuss further

[Traxia]

As for how it can be exploited.

Imagine a game that not only adds to your program when you install it, but CHANGES the existing scenarios dynamically as well. So that old missions seem as new because you can build new buildings (If you can get a greek, roman or chinese citizens to take interest in your city). You could decide to complete the mission using instead of Egyptian people, a majoritively Greek community. You could see how your people react to instruction by Greek philosiphers (can't spell) instead of Egyptian Scribes. You can see what happens if you defend your town with roman militia instead of an Egyptian command. You could have it so people complain if they feel out numbered by a different culture or that they've been dumped in favour of a different race. Imagine if all you saw were Greek noble shops and nothing for the Egyptian nobles. Who you wage war on could effect the people at home. If you are waging war on Rome, then people could avoid the Roman shops and Nobles, Romans could leave your city because you've attacked their cities. There could be demonstrations by the romans to stop the war on their nation.

I don't know enough about the campaign goals of COTN but imagine if you got the same type of people who built the Great Wall of China, building your pyramids. We know that Hebrews often worked for the Egyptians, so what about Greek and Romans too. If they gain enough status, they may feel they deserve a larger say in the city. Statues of Anubis next to Hermes. And then we get the combining of the Gods. When Greece did take over Egypt, quite a few gods changed their names and patronages. Perhaps you could convince Anubites that Artemis is a good choice instead.

There could also be special combination missions where you could either play the scenario as both sides, or where you have a city that is devoutly of one God and you have to introduce enough of your people to change their views.

An example of how it could go:
You get a message on your screen:
'A greek refugee and his family begs entry to your city. He used to be a bricklayer in Athens until a fire destroyed his home. He can teach you new techniques to help you build your tomb. Do you let him in or do you execute him and enslave his family?'
You let him in and then you can build Greek bricklayers as well as Egyptian ones. His mates join him and all of the sudden you have a greek quarter in your city.
You declare war on Athens and there is a revolt in the Greek Quarter...

Of course if you execute him, there's a whole different lot of worries...

And so on...

[Son of Moose]

Traxia:

Thank you so much for your most informative posts!! :D I still have to look at the separate link but I really like your ideas for combined CB scenarios. This idea (and others similar to it) would certainly take the current CB genre to a new (and much greater) height. :)

I really hope that "The Powers-That-Be" at TM are actively considering the merits of this idea as it really does seem to represent a remarkable breakthrough.

Indeed, if you can continue with your great ideas, maybe TM will offer you a job as one of their programmers. ;) Stranger things have happened ...

Please keep the ideas flowing!!

[Son of Moose]

Traxia:

Still looking at your diagram... A couple of minor suggestions (if I may be so bold :o ): How about:

# Children of the Acropolis for the Greek game

# Children of the Tiber for the Roman game

# Children of the Gobi for the Chinese game (although, from a geographical perspective, it might be somewhat difficult to explain the inclusion of the Chinese :( )

# Children of the Tigris for a Babylonian/Assyrian game

[Fellow members please feel free to make your own suggestions for possible additional future cultures --- possibly with a Mediterranean flavour. :D ]

Perhaps (if you feel it is appropriate) you could paste a copy of your diagram in this thread as it certainly does assist in explaining the whole concept!!

With kindest regards

[Traxia]

Hehehe I tried but I live in england so I'm too far out of their recruiting area. But TM if you are listening. Should you ever branch out into other countries.... Manchester within 5 Miles of Withington please :) and I'll be sure to look you up :D. Or if you decide to have an online think tank... you have my email address...

As for Powers that Be. Has someone got any of the TM people who frequent here as their buddies, or can draw their attention to this?

[Traxia]

They were just the names I could think of in the spur of the moment.

As for posting the diagram, that would kill slow machines, this way people either view it or they don't by choice. It doesn't take down the forum with it.

We can repost the link every page or so for the people attempting to keep up.

[Son of Moose]

Maybe they might find your serives so valuable to them that you might be able to "telecommute" for them. :D Although I live in South Africa, I am working part-time for a colleague based in the UK. (I am, in fact, expecting an important phone call from him later on today. :eek: ).

Certainly internet-based technology has truly made the world into a "global village". Imho, telecommuting consultancy jobs will (hopefully) become increasingly more important in the future.

Therefore "go for it girl!!" ...

[Good idea --- in above post. :) ]

[Son of Moose]

Sorry to deliberately bump this post to the top of the list, but I was wondering whether any of our new members (who seem so full of new ideas :D ) would like to add their voices to this thread.

Perhaps this thread could be viewed in conjunction with my fairly new thread regarding how much detail would you like to see in CotN (in the Capital City forum). Also some of the comments appearing in the RTS/CB thread (in this forum) might also be somewhat relevant.

All these concepts and ideas could feasibly be added to CotN and/or future TM products.