Other Building games?

[Janmeryet]

I come seeking advice, mighty scribes! I'm relatively new to gaming in general and city-building in particular - thus far my experience has been playing most of Pharaoh and then bravely/foolishly entering a competition for Emperor. From these I learned of Cleopatra, Zeus/Poseidon and Caesar 3, which I've ordered in a pack, but I don't know any other building games or where to find that kind of information. If you would share with me the benefit of your years of experience and knowledge of abbreviations (RPG is role playing game? LOL is Lots of Love?), I would be forever grateful. :D

[eobet]

LOL actually means that you are 14 years old. ;) (Or "laughing out loud" if you have to be picky.)

Hmm... the first title which comes to mind when thinking of Impression's games is Anno 1503 AD. A nice looking, but very superficial game, where you have to do a lot of guesswork about what is really happening (and you have unlimited amounts of people).

I'm slow today, so I will have to think a bit for more games (if I'm allowed to stretch the genre a bit, Settlers 2 Gold is one of my favourites, because of the nifty logistics problems you have to manage in that game).

[Jayhawk]

then bravely/foolishly entering a competition for Emperor.
Never foolish ;)

ZooTycoon might be up your alley.
Anno 1602/1503 are somewhat similar, though work with radius of influence, rather than walkers.
Stronghold is a good halfway house between City Building and RTS.

[eobet]

Well, if you can mention Stronhold (which is an excellent and innovative game), I guess you could mention some "Theme/Tycoon" games as well, where Startopia is my favourite, and which could possibly be a good preparation for Children of the Nile, as it is 3D, and cares about the inhabitants of your space station at an individual level.

Man, it's sad when work keeps your mind so occupied that you can't even remember the games you like. :(

[Cironir]

There's also Tropico 2, where you build/manage a pirate island. Not as closely related, but possibly still of interest, are Port Royale and Patrician 3, though they are more focused on trading/economy than building. 1503 AD is probably your best bet. The add-on (was it released in English?) fixes some of the issues that Eobet mentioned, though not all. Last but not least, there's SimCity 4000 plus its expansion, which is quite nice if the random events don't drive you up the wall. :)

Startopia completely escaped my attention when it was released. Just read a review and looked at screenshots, and this actually does sound like a fun game (though I generally don't care too much for futuristic settings). Going to pick that one up end of the month.

[Manni]

There is also
Settlers III and Settlers IV......number V coming soon, 3D this time.

More building up-games?

An old one but cute: Knights & Merchants

How about Cultures I & II with varoius add-ons. Made up in style simular to Settlers.

[Rnett]

There's also Tropico 2, where you build/manage a pirate island. Not as closely related, but possibly still of interest, are Port Royale and Patrician 3, though they are more focused on trading/economy than building. 1503 AD is probably your best bet. The add-on (was it released in English?)

We play a lot of the same games, but afaik the Anno add-on hasn't been released in North America yet, still waiting :D

[Cironir]

Oh, I thought it had been released in English, too. It really does improve the game quite a bit, so it's something to look forward to. There is also a third-party utility for Anno from a different company that allows you to tweak all kinds of settings to customize the game to suit your needs, but that's only available in German, too.

If you liked Port Royale, you'll probably enjoy PR2 later this year (came out in Germany in April). In some ways, it's been a bit "dumbed down" and naval combat is harder/more annoying than before, but the number of fleets is no longer limited and you can have your own towns (the Vice Kings offer bits of land as rewards) that are included into the game-wide economy (AI traders will stop there, though they cannot build structures).

[NeilV]

The add-on for Anno 1503 is available in Ireland (so should be thru Europe) Recently got the game for €15 but passed on the add on as it was €30 thought I would try the game first and then see if I wanted the add on.

In the list of games don’t forget Space Colony. :rolleyes:

[Ammurit]

How unfortunate we city builders are to have only a handful of games to choose from. I got so desperate to build something that I even branched out to RTS games like Age of Empires, Age of Kings, and Age of Mythology. Those games are fun in their own right, but they can never replace a city building game. :)

[eobet]

There is also
Settlers III and Settlers IV......number V coming soon, 3D this time.

I don't like the sequels after Settlers 2. They eliminated the road system, which was what made the game unique. I loved that system (which was actually a hexagonal grid, which in my book is an added bonus), as it present so many challenges, and it could let you tackle logistics problems that not even Transport Tycoon or Railroad Tycoon would give you!

Settlers V will apparently not go back to its roots either, and unfortunately takes it further into the RTS area, and also present a "technology research" system, which I find rather silly at the moment.

Hopefully, Medieval Lords will become a spiritual sequel to Settlers 2, but the E3 presentation movie wasn't that reassuring.

The game closest to the original Settlers today, I must say is Stronghold, with its farming - harvesting - grinding - baking - storing production chain (unfortunately, other production chains in the game aren't as long, but it's still very, very well made).

[G-Force]

I also stopped after Settlers 2, they shouldn't have removed the roads. I picked up Settlers IV for € 5 but I always lost ....

G-Force

[Janmeryet]

Thank you all! I've popped into my local games store and they've only got Anno 1503. Is this the earlier version of the 1602 someone mentioned? And exactly what does RTS stand for? For the older games people have recommended, is browsing somewhere like Ebay my best bet or can you suggest somewhere I can find them? Again, my thanks for your wisdom :)
Oh, what are "rofl", "IIRC" and "imo"?

[tobing]

Anno 1602 was there first, and most of the games mentioned here are not really new games, games like Settlers2 and Transport Tycoon are DOS-based and will not work under Windows XP. It's a sad thing about compatibility...

Well, ebay is one way to get the older games, you can also try amazon or some of your local stores. Here in Germany you can get even Settlers2 in MediaMarkt or so, because they always try to resell the older games with some cheap label, not the original label.

RTS is Real Time Strategy

[EmperorJay]

www.acronymsearch.com (http://www.acronymsearch.com)

But to list a few commonly used acronyms:

ROFL(MAO) - Rolling On The Floor Laughing (My Ass Off)
LOL - Laughing Out Loud
AFAIK - As Far As I Know
IIRC - If I Recall Correctly
IM(H)O - In My (Humble) Opinion
FYI - For Your Information

These are the ones you'll encounter most.

Edit: Other not emotion related acronyms:
RTS - Real Time Strategy
TBS - Turn Based Strategy
FPS - First Person Shooter or Frames per Second (both commonly used)
(MMO)RPG - (Massive Multiplayer Online)Role Playing Game

[eobet]

Thank you all! I've popped into my local games store and they've only got Anno 1503. Is this the earlier version of the 1602 someone mentioned?

That is the sequel to 1602.

If you live in America, you'll have plenty to choose from (www.ebworld.com, www.cdaccess.com, www.amazon.com etc. etc. etc.), but if you live in Europe, I would recommend www.play.com or www.dvdboxoffice.com (which is actually a Canadian site, but as play, it has the shipping cost included in the listing price).

I bet you will have cheaper local alternatives, though. For example, here in Sweden, www.ginza.se, www.webhallen.com and www.cdon.com are dirt cheap, compared to the previously mentioned stores.

I checked some of them, btw. They all have Stronghold and Startopia. They will probably also have Tropico and the other recommended games.

[Cironir]

Thank you all! I've popped into my local games store and they've only got Anno 1503. Is this the earlier version of the 1602 someone mentioned?

No, "Anno 1503" (or "1503 AD") is the newer game, and the one you probably want. :) It does not require you to have played or know 1602, and 1503 is the better game of the two (in my opinion).

[Cironir]

This thread is evil. I just picked up "Stronghold" and "Stronghold: Crusaders" from the bargain bin. They should arrive next week. I remember wanting to buy Crusaders when it came out in 2002, but 49,99 Euro was a bit steep at the time.

[eobet]

Good for you! :)

It might be worth mentioning that the AI in the economic missions of Stronghold (ie. the bandits) is very stupid, and always attacks on the exact same spot, at the exact same time. Without knowing this, some economic missions can turn into military missions instead.

Stronhold has the familiar, medieval English setting, but Crusader has some features which is sorely lacking from Stronhold. A sandbox, for example.

I felt that the campaign in Crusader also easily turned into massive slaughters (which is probably very historically accurate, though). I just built more and more on my castle until I didn't have to bother with the AI's meagre attack attempts, but by then the AI had done the same, so my attacks became absolute blood baths!

[Cironir]

After playing the Crusaders' demo a bit, I realised that I definitely need to shape up in the combat area. ;) I don't know, it's quite apparent that I am a "builder" and "logistics designer" much more than a RTS strategist. I was planning my woodcutters camp and quarry still while the opponent already attacked me. Oy! I admit that I absolutely "suck" at any kind of RTS combat (I really tried hard to love Rise of Nations, but it didn't work out -- give me Age of Wonders any day!) which is why I much prefer TBS games, as I can actually think about what I'm going to do, rather than having to decide spontaneously. Then again, I'm perfectly happy without any sort of combat in my games. I wouldn't have bought Crusaders without the building mode, but it's not in the demo. Kind of funny that I'm obviously in the minority when it comes to game preferences.

That reminds me, I wanted to start a thread about combat in CotN. Hopefully, it will be more or less optional. I'm just not a good general. :) You know, "Make love, not war!". :p

[Azeem]

I'm good at battlefield tactics but terrible at micromanagement. Thus the only strategy games I excel at are turn-based strategies with real-time combat such as "Shogun" or "Lords of Magic." ;) When I played "Age of Empires" online, I was able to devise battlefield strategies that baffled and devestated even experienced players, but I always ended up losing since I'm very bad at multitasking each and every individual peasant ;) . Unfortunately, I haven't found enough games that offer city building with deep battlefield tactics as RTS games simply keep boiling down to frantic clickfests. I suppose I have two very diametrically opposed preferences - deep battlefield strategy and city-building. :)

[Cironir]

Ah, I can relate to this. :) I really do like TBS where I actually have time to think about strategies, but I perform poorly at anything even remotely related to "twitching", since I'm just too slow. Well, not too slow, I just like to have time to analyze a situation rather than being required to respond/react immmediately. I did like RoN, and did fairly in online matches, but I felt somewhat exhausted after playing it online (or even offline, though you can pause). I prefer anything that's turn-pased, and I'd call Age of Wonders my favourite TBS series, though I'll always be deeply in love with MoM -- it just was my first love, and I'll always remember her fondly. :p While others disagree, I thought that AoW: Shadow Magic was a worthy, unofficial heir of MoM. It's a little unfortunate that RTS games are far more popular than TBS games, but I don't mind being in the minority. (I didn't like HoMM IV as much as others, though.)

[NeilV]

After playing the Crusaders' demo a bit, I realised that I definitely need to shape up in the combat area. ;) I don't know, it's quite apparent that I am a "builder" and "logistics designer" much more than a RTS strategist. I was planning my woodcutters camp and quarry still while the opponent already attacked me.

Have you tried Cossacks with the add on or the stand alone add on in the sand box mode you get to set a peace time I normally set it to 1 hour which gives you time to build up your town and lots of forces before you get down to the fighting :cool:

[G-Force]

There is also such an option in Rise of Nations. In that game the max is 30 minutes and that is all I need to get all the techs and ages. After that it is city-hunting time :)

G-Force

[Jayhawk]

In the list of games don’t forget Space Colony.
:) I remember testing that. Shame it never got very popular.

Cironir, should you get stuck in Stronghold, or want more maps to play, don't forget to go to Stronghold Heaven ;)

Cultures was indeed quite funny, expecially with the storks dropping of the baby vikings. Although the game itself didn't grab my attention for too long, it felt too repetative.

[Reed]

Anyone ever play Afterlife?

It's an oldie and definitely one of the most unique city builders. As the name suggests, you deal w/ the afterlife...Heaven and Hell. And you built cities for both at the same time, for souls.

But it had some pretty insane micromanagement, if I remember correctly (haven't played it since it came out). I liked it though.

There are some screenshots of it here (and a demo as well):
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/afterlife/screenindex.html

[tobing]

Afterlife looked very promising, indeed. I have played, or at least try to play it: There is some oddity built into this game. In one line it is that your costs are determined by the structures you have build, so they are proportional to the actual number of your buildings resp. inhabitants. But the money you gain is determined by new citizens, so is proportional to the number of NEW inhabitants. This means that you can not build a stable city, you are doomed to grow your city exponentially - and you can't do this. Very peculiar, because otherwise it would have been a really nice game with some fresh ideas really!

[Jayl]

Does anyone know any other games about ancient Egypt. I am looking for building games, but if you know other games about ancient Egypt that will be good too.

[Azeem]

Anyone ever play Afterlife?

It's an oldie and definitely one of the most unique city builders. As the name suggests, you deal w/ the afterlife...Heaven and Hell. And you built cities for both at the same time, for souls.

But it had some pretty insane micromanagement, if I remember correctly (haven't played it since it came out). I liked it though.

There are some screenshots of it here (and a demo as well):
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/afterlife/screenindex.html

Yes, I've had the luxury of playing it. It has some insanely difficult micronamagement (as you have to micromanage every single little building) and its mechanics take some getting used to. But it's quite fun once you get the hang of it. It has lots of humor too (especially the bizarre punishments for Hell ;) ).

[Reed]

Yes, I've had the luxury of playing it. It has some insanely difficult micronamagement (as you have to micromanage every single little building) and its mechanics take some getting used to. Yeah, do you remember what it was that you had to manage? I remember having to continually go through every building every so often tweaking some setting.

[Azeem]

After every few seconds or so, you have to click on each and every building to "Balance" the workers there. Sometimes the building will have a certain number of "Temporary" and "Permanent" residents occupying it. Thus you have to set a certain percentage of angels/demons working for the "Temporary" and "Permanent" residents. The more "balanced" a building is, the more its value increases. It's an interesting concept, but it gets way too tedious.

[Janmeryet]

If you live in America, you'll have plenty to choose from (www.ebworld.com, www.cdaccess.com, www.amazon.com etc. etc. etc.), but if you live in Europe, I would recommend www.play.com or www.dvdboxoffice.com (which is actually a Canadian site, but as play, it has the shipping cost included in the listing price).

Thanks Eobet. Actually, I didn't realise my location wasn't listed - I'm in Australia and my local stores have NOTHING! The US sites I checked won't ship to Australia, I haven't checked Europe yet.

Also, thanks to Emperor Jay for your acronym info - I have a greater understanding of many posts now :D

[NeilV]

try Amazon.co.uk (http://www.amazon.co.uk) they are used to shipping to other country's but shipping is normally about €10

[MarvL]

Does anyone know any other games about ancient Egypt. I am looking for building games, but if you know other games about ancient Egypt that will be good too.
I'm having a ball with A Tale In The Desert. It's an on-line game ($13.95 per month) that focuses on cooperative projects. We're currently building a huge (2400 blocks) pyramid to memorialize the end of the current Telling.

Yesterday more than 60 people were hunting for limestone blocks, digging them up, and transporting them to the pyramid site. We had mobs of people running along the boreholes digging up blocks and about 30 "ancient automation" robotic crawlers dragging blocks around the landscape. It was insane fun, and a very impressive demonstration of cooperative effort. Take a look at http://www.atitd.com/ if it sounds interesting.

I'm guessing that most of the ATITD crowd will also be interested in the Tilted Mill product as soon as it becomes available. I'm sure you'll recognize several of the names from other City Building venues. There should be a lot of commonality, and it will be interesting to compare the two approaches to essentially the same problem.

[Jacquou Le]

I'm having a ball with A Tale In The Desert. It's an on-line game ($13.95 per month) that focuses on cooperative projects. We're currently building a huge (2400 blocks) pyramid to memorialize the end of the current Telling.

...

Where's the site (coords) you're building? I want to join in a hand, it's been bored around my camp site :(

[Jayhawk]

Anyone ever play Afterlife?
I think I played the demo...never really go tthe hang of it, but reading Azeem's comments I can see why. :o

[Afterburner]

I liked Afterlife a lot, but I also have a very high tolerance for micromanagement.

If you're looking for a "building" game, but don't mind if it's not a "build a city/empire/nation" type game, it's hard to beat Rollercoaster Tycoon (and its various expansions).

Building your own custom built coaster from scratch and watching it whiz around the tracks is lotsa fun.

[Niempie]

Rollercoaster Tycoon has given me lot of fun while playing. Every couple of months I wil get my CD and play again. I also have that with Zoo tycoon. Love that game too.

[Cironir]

<off-topic> MarvL, this must seem random, but are you the MarvL who used to be in WorldsAway nearly a decade ago? </off-topic>

[Janmeryet]

Thank you all :) . I just got my Great Empires pack so that'll keep me busy for a while, then I can go hunting for the titles you've given me. I had a look at the other thread (the waiting for Christmas one) but so many were military style, and I, like Cironir, am more a ruler and less a general! Cheers! :D

[Cironir]

Thank you all :) . I just got my Great Empires pack so that'll keep me busy for a while, then I can go hunting for the titles you've given me. I had a look at the other thread (the waiting for Christmas one) ...

That was a good choice, too. Of many of the more or less recent compiliations, I believe this one to be one of those that offers the greatest value for the money. I already had C3, Pharaoh/Cleopatra, Zeus/Poseidon and Emperor (don't like this one as much), but I still bought the collection, just because I wanted to suppport the genre (and because I wanted some non-burnt backups). The only downside is that the manuals come in shape of PDFs. I much prefer a printed manual.

... but so many were military style, and I, like Cironir, am more a ruler and less a general! Cheers! :D

Good taste there! :D I don't mind tactical combat such as in the Age of Wonders series so much, but in building-oriented games I find combat fairly disturbing and cumbersome. I just want to origanize and tweak my city, without having to get into (usually weak) versions of RTS. Like you, I much prefer to keep an eye on the "larger scale" issues than the tedious details of warfare. Don't we employ (and might I meantion: pay very well!) generals so that we don't have to deal with such mundane annoyances? :p