Urban Simulation vs City Builder, a reason to change the name

[panikattak]

My biggest problem with Simcity: Societies is it is a city builder. I don't like playing city builders, I like playing Urban Simulators like Simcity 1-4. I own two Tilted Mill products, both city builders (Ceaser 3&4) as well as Pharoh and I have to be honest, they are no longer installed and reside in my unused software box. I'm afraid from what I've seen so far, I will not enjoy playing with Simcity: Societies and if I bought it, it too would end up in my unused software box.

A small discussion has started on Simtopolis that has the opinion SCS is a different breed from the Simcity or The Sims series and it was suggested that a better fitting name for SCS would be:

SimSocieties

It would start a new fork in EA's Sim lineup, create a new community of players based around the game, not confuse previous players of Simcity or The Sims with a game that isn't what they are expecting, and most of all for me, not ruin a successful franchise that Simcity is by messing with the magic sauce with an inappropriate sequeal. But for you, Tilted Mill, it will mean you can pacify the hardcores while trying to sell them on trying out a new game (being a new game/franchise doesn't matter to newbies, but does matter to hardcores, think about it).

So, is there any support for a name change to SimSocieties? Does this sound like a good compromise for us hardcore Simcity fans and EA/Tilted Mill? Do you want an urban simulator too and not a city builder? Please tell your opinion whether it's for or against a name change and we'll move on from there. If you have an alternative idea, please share that as well.

[bosiydid]

My biggest problem with Simcity: Societies is it is a city builder. I don't like playing city builders, I like playing Urban Simulators like Simcity 1-4. I own two Tilted Mill products, both city builders (Ceaser 3&4) as well as Pharoh and I have to be honest, they are no longer installed and reside in my unused software box. I'm afraid from what I've seen so far, I will not enjoy playing with Simcity: Societies and if I bought it, it too would end up in my unused software box.

A small discussion has started on Simtopolis that has the opinion SCS is a different breed from the Simcity or The Sims series and it was suggested that a better fitting name for SCS would be:

SimSocieties

It would start a new fork in EA's Sim lineup, create a new community of players based around the game, not confuse previous players of Simcity or The Sims with a game that isn't what they are expecting, and most of all for me, not ruin a successful franchise that Simcity is by messing with the magic sauce with an inappropriate sequeal. But for you, Tilted Mill, it will mean you can pacify the hardcores while trying to sell them on trying out a new game (being a new game/franchise doesn't matter to newbies, but does matter to hardcores, think about it).

So, is there any support for a name change to SimSocieties? Does this sound like a good compromise for us hardcore Simcity fans and EA/Tilted Mill? Do you want an urban simulator too and not a city builder? Please tell your opinion whether it's for or against a name change and we'll move on from there. If you have an alternative idea, please share that as well.

I personally would be more amicable to buying this game if it's not SimCity. This is a brilliant post. Truth be told (I've already stated as much) some aspects of this game sound very intriguing to me. But it is not SimCity.

[Techleo]

Whether or not I agree with Boy on alot of subjects about this game I do think this games name needs to be changed. Obviously its similar to the Sim Titles like SimTower, SimEarth, SimAnt so on so forth. SO it deserves that Sim Moniker.
It is SimSocieties because thats what it portrays. Just because it takes place in a Simcity location doesn't make it a Simcity game.

Any time you focus on a part of the Simcity universe it becomes a Sim game. The Sims took you into there homes. Simant to the natural world. Simearth to the system above the city. Simfarm to the farms of the world.

Thats my 2 cents at least:)

[Adagio]

As I've stated in another thread I agree that this needs a name change, SimSocieties would be a better name

[ManagerJosh]

panik, very well written. Props to you! :)

[bosiydid]

Whether or not I agree with Boy on alot of subjects about this game I do think this games name needs to be changed. Obviously its similar to the Sim Titles like SimTower, SimEarth, SimAnt so on so forth. SO it deserves that Sim Moniker.
It is SimSocieties because thats what it portrays. Just because it takes place in a Simcity location doesn't make it a Simcity game.

Any time you focus on a part of the Simcity universe it becomes a Sim game. The Sims took you into there homes. Simant to the natural world. Simearth to the system above the city. Simfarm to the farms of the world.

Thats my 2 cents at least:)

It does deserve to be called Sim something. It is a Sim game, even though it doesn't fit anywhere near SimCity or Sims, it's in between.

Many people find this game interesting, including SimCity fans. The reason we have our collective panties up in a bunch is because they are billing it as a next SimCity. Simply created a new branch of the SimCity tree and I'm on board. And then us SimCity fans can go back to praying that there will be a SC5.

[Rubicon]

But for you, Tilted Mill, it will mean you can pacify the hardcores while trying to sell them on trying out a new game (being a new game/franchise doesn't matter to newbies, but does matter to hardcores, think about it).
Coming from a newbie-to-be (if there is such a thing), I think this is the most salient point made so far. As one who has been belittling the whole movement to change the name, this makes me rethink the subject. I wonder if EA (or Tilted Mill) expected such a strong reaction to the name. Seeing as this game appears to be a blend of the two franchises, it makes good sense to splice the two names together, imo.

[bosiydid]

My biggest problem with Simcity: Societies is it is a city builder. I don't like playing city builders, I like playing Urban Simulators like Simcity 1-4. I own two Tilted Mill products, both city builders (Ceaser 3&4) as well as Pharoh and I have to be honest, they are no longer installed and reside in my unused software box. I'm afraid from what I've seen so far, I will not enjoy playing with Simcity: Societies and if I bought it, it too would end up in my unused software box.

A small discussion has started on Simtopolis that has the opinion SCS is a different breed from the Simcity or The Sims series and it was suggested that a better fitting name for SCS would be:

SimSocieties

It would start a new fork in EA's Sim lineup, create a new community of players based around the game, not confuse previous players of Simcity or The Sims with a game that isn't what they are expecting, and most of all for me, not ruin a successful franchise that Simcity is by messing with the magic sauce with an inappropriate sequeal. But for you, Tilted Mill, it will mean you can pacify the hardcores while trying to sell them on trying out a new game (being a new game/franchise doesn't matter to newbies, but does matter to hardcores, think about it).

So, is there any support for a name change to SimSocieties? Does this sound like a good compromise for us hardcore Simcity fans and EA/Tilted Mill? Do you want an urban simulator too and not a city builder? Please tell your opinion whether it's for or against a name change and we'll move on from there. If you have an alternative idea, please share that as well.

At the risk of sounding like a complete fruitcake/stalker I'd like to again say.

BRILLIAN post, the more I think about it the more it makes sense. This is all the old timers want....many of us would probably go buy it. And then in our spare time we will continue to pray for SC5.

Kudos to panik!

[Techleo]

This suddenly reminds me of the launch of the name Wii.
Remember how pissed off people were? Then it turns out people start to like it.
Oh well.. I suppose one way or another this game will stand on its virtues. Whatever they may be hehe.

I wonder how many of you all were surprised Will Wright called his SimEverything Spore?

[John-SJ]

While SC:S certainly shares some aspects of the city builder style, it also appears to be (I say appears for now since no one can know for sure) very strongly in the simulation camp. No, it is not a water pipe simulation or a power line simulation and I am sure there are a lot of people disappointed because of this. At least these missing features get harped on often enough that I assume people will miss them.

What it is though, or at least appears to be, is a simulation of some different aspects of a city. In simCity you build a road or a bus stop and affect how people get to work. But you don't care about the attitude of the people. In SC:S it appears that you do care about the attitude though. You don't build a road to affect commute times, instead you build a venue to affect an attitude. Rather than simulating a thousand sims getting to work every day SC:S will simulate whether or not those same thousand sims care enough to go to work.

If done poorly, SC:S could be a disaster. But if done well, and with enough variety to keep things interesting, this game could be the start of something as great as what SimCity grew into from its beginnings.

Personnaly, I am hoping for the latter.

Also, I think the name should stay SimCity:Societies.

[MarkDuffy]

What happens, if SimCity Societies turns out to be a really good game that even the "hardcore" SC4 fans like?

and you had a chance to have it part of the SimCity line, but rejected the name & got it changed.

It is quite possible that "your version" of SimCity died with SC4. ;)

[Freeminder]

Ohhhhh what a beautiful come back by mark duffy. 15 love to MD making it 15 all:D

[bosiydid]

What happens, if SimCity Societies turns out to be a really good game that even the "hardcore" SC4 fans like?

and you had a chance to have it part of the SimCity line, but rejected the name & got it changed.

It is quite possible that "your version" of SimCity died with SC4. ;)

Then I would have two great sim franchise to follow....SC and SimSocieties. The risk is greater in my opinion if they kill SimCity then it would be if they created a great new franchise.

If they kill SimCity as many seem to think they will if they keep the name, the gaming community will remember TM for being the SimCity killer and not the developer of a great game in CeaserIV.

That transgression will NEVER be forgiven.

[Freeminder]

The tides turning! 30-15

[Techleo]

I believe Mrs. Bernstein actually said that the layouts will effect traffic. In fact I know she did. I just watched the video again. Traffic will exist apparently because she said if you don't make a good layout people wont be able to make it to work easily.

[Aushun]

Thank you for the excellent post. I personally don't have anything against the name, and the fact that SimCity isn't followed by a number is enough for me to mentally distinguish it from the other SimCity games, but most SimCity fans either aren't able to do so, or think that the game simply doesn't deserve the SimCity title. At the end of the day, it's EA's IP and they're free to with it whatever they like. If it'll stop the still-present exclamations of "TM are murderers! They've killed SimCity!! It's the apocalypse!!!", then a name change may be in order, but something tells me that it sadly won't.

[MarkDuffy]

Then I would have two great sim franchise to follow....SC and SimSocieties.

No, you only would have one Franchise. Societies & a dead SimCity. TM is trying to extend the SimCity line.

The risk is greater in my opinion if they kill SimCity then it would be if they created a great new franchise.

Or, there would be a need for EA to make a SimCity 5(6) to recover. I believe it is pretty clever (ie safe) to leave the "5" outta the name. Right now, it doesn't look like either EA nor Will Wright is interested in making "your SC5".

If they kill SimCity as many seem to think they will if they keep the name, the gaming community will remember TM for being the SimCity killer and not the developer of a great game in CeaserIV. That transgression will NEVER be forgiven.

This is the risk that TM has taken ... BOLDLY. They also have the backing of EA & it appears Will Wright himself.

I almost get the feeling that you all are afraid SimCity Societies will succeed! ;)

[bosiydid]

No, you only would have one Franchise. Societies & a dead SimCity. TM is trying to extend the SimCity line.

The risk is greater in my opinion if they kill SimCity then it would be if they created a great new franchise.

Or, there would be a need for EA to make a SimCity 5(6) to recover. I believe it is pretty clever (ie safe) to leave the "5" outta the name. Right now, it doesn't look like either EA nor Will Wright is interested in making "your SC5".

If they kill SimCity as many seem to think they will if they keep the name, the gaming community will remember TM for being the SimCity killer and not the developer of a great game in CeaserIV. That transgression will NEVER be forgiven.

This is the risk that TM has taken ... BOLDLY. They also have the backing of EA & it appears Will Wright himself.

I almost get the feeling that you all are afraid SimCity Societies will succeed! ;)

If you excuse my French...your post sucks Mark :D Thats TIC!

In all honesty it's all a matter of opinion. Since Will isn't involved with this game you don't know what he's thinking, he could be lamenting the death of his creation.

[King Faticus]

beauty is in the eye of the beholder, all things are subjective...X_x

[MarkDuffy]

If you excuse my French...your post sucks Mark :D Thats TIC!

So sorry you feel that way, Bosiydid.

In all honesty it's all a matter of opinion. Since Will isn't involved with this game you don't know what he's thinking, he could be lamenting the death of his creation.

Will Wright is making Spore. If it is successful, what will he want to do ~ "SC5" or Spore 2?

You all gonna wish Spore fails also?

[panikattak]

Quite the contrary, I hope the game succeeds. For both TM and EA. I don't wish any evil on them, just want them to know a long time player (1989 till now) is telling them he doesn't like what he's seeing.

What I don't want is the game play style in Societies. To me, it looks like a city builder and I'm not interested in that style of play. I would rather they make Simcity 5, the improved and FINISHED version of SC4 (that was the problem, they never finished SC4 and as a consequence, was unnecessarily difficult (because you had to play around the flaws) which led to this situation).

And I'm hoping that your wish "my version" of Simcity being dead is wrong. I know I would be heart broken if the game style I have played for almost two decades died with SC4. Simcity is why I upgrade my computer. Simcity 1-4 are the only games installed on my computer. Simcity makes me happy.

Maybe that doesn't matter to you. Maybe you'd rather argue this because you feel loyalty to TM. I don't know. All I know is I have a sinking feeling you may be right and Simcity is dead. But it motivates me to try to save what I love.

[MarkDuffy]

Maybe that doesn't matter to you.

It DOES matter to me, Panikattak. God, it matters to me. I've been there ~ done that with COTN which didn't even get an expansion pack. :(

Maybe you'd rather argue this because you feel loyalty to TM.

Loyality is much too subtle of a word. I absolutely LOVE Tilted Mill. It also ain't breaking news, either! :D

I want my new games, fresh & different! :)

[King Faticus]

to be honest I am scared at all of this, mostly because Im not sure where things will go from here... also if it does fail I can see alot of simcity fans joining and staying just to repeat their mantra "you killed simcity" and it is not something I am keen on:/
except that TM will survive even with that label attached to it atleast

If it sucseeds will there really ever be a true simcity 5? or will they make simcity Societies 2-4
it almost sounds like a loose loose to me:o


PS Im a TM Loyalist aswell

[John-SJ]

In all truth and honesty, If they were to make SC5, the improved and finsihed version of SC4, I would very likely leave it on the store shelf.

I mean, come on! I have been playing the same basic style of game since 1989! In my mind it is time for a change. More of the same is not necessarily better. I think a new direction for SC is well past due.

/me puts on his flame retardant suit

[Adagio]

What happens, if SimCity Societies turns out to be a really good game that even the "hardcore" SC4 fans like?

and you had a chance to have it part of the SimCity line, but rejected the name & got it changed.

It is quite possible that "your version" of SimCity died with SC4. ;)

No matter if SC:S will turn out to be huge success or a great failure, the game should be renamed
There is another game I'm looking forward to, officially it's a sequel to one of my favorite games, but apart from the setting it has almost nothing in common with the earlier games. IMHO the game should be renamed, even though I might end up liking that game even more

[Rubicon]

I would rather they make Simcity 5, the improved and FINISHED version of SC4 (that was the problem, they never finished SC4 and as a consequence, was unnecessarily difficult (because you had to play around the flaws) which led to this situation).
Yes, well that's it isn't it? I think that any really great game instills this feeling in its hardcore fans. Every game that has really captured me left me feeling the same way... wanting basically more of the same game, but a little more of "this", a little less of "that". Sometimes the developers come through, but many times they don't. I'm sure it all boils down to the economics of expanding and shrinking fan bases. Every publisher is looking for the next big thing.

[Adagio]

I mean, come on! I have been playing the same basic style of game since 1989! In my mind it is time for a change. More of the same is not necessarily better. I think a new direction for SC is well past due.


I do agree that changes needs to be made from time to time, there shouldn't be that many huge changes as SC:S is making
This game makes me think of backwards evolution, they try to fix something that is not broken by replacing it with something that is broken

[King Faticus]

there is a difference between "not what you want" and "broken"

[panikattak]

If you're so loyal to TM, then why would you want them to clash with a group of people they're are supposed to be trying to develope for? Wouldn't you rather an acceptable sollution, and simple one, to try to make as many people who are involved as happy as possible be found? Would a simple name change be too much to ask? Especially if it's the fans who are asking for it?

Do you play Simcity? SC4 especially?

I do. I play for about up to 2 hours a day, 4-7 days a week for the last 3 to 4 years. Honestly, do you think SC:S will satisfy my Simcity itch?

Truly, I'm shocked, horrified, and sad to see Societies. I have no doubt it will be a good game, and I may even play it, but coming from an investment of time really enjoying a game like Simcity 4, I watch the footage of Societies and my heart drops and I'm getting seriously depressed thinking this may be the end of an era.

Please, if you understand, then I ask you to help me, us, the hardcore Simcity fans to help TM see the wisdom of the name change. If you don't want to, then at least you're intellegent posting is making me think harder on how to approach this problem.

[MarkDuffy]

I take it that this post is directed to me? Perhaps some kind of identifier would help?

If you're so loyal to TM, then why would you want them to clash with a group of people they're are supposed to be trying to develope for?

Perhaps you missed the Caesar IV development? We got quite a bit of yelling & screaming on this forum about that one also from the "hardcore" C3 fans. ;)

Apparently, producers want developers to fit into their little slots, while developers want to make their own games. There is always a compromise made.

Wouldn't you rather an acceptable sollution, and simple one, to try to make as many people who are involved as happy as possible be found?

Lots of people involved, Panikattak. For you to assume that only "hardcore SC4 fans" are involved is not fair.

Would a simple name change be too much to ask? Especially if it's the fans who are asking for it?

Of course not. You are free to ask for anything you want.

Do you play Simcity?

I have re-started to play SC3U to bond with the SimCity fans. I bought it, didn't like it, & shelved it. However, it was never uninstalled.

SC4 especially?

Nope, I do not own SC4.

I do. I play for about up to 2 hours a day, 4-7 days a week for the last 3 to 4 years.

Excellent! Games that we personally love are soooo very rare! :)

Honestly, do you think SC:S will satisfy my Simcity itch?

I don't know.

Truly, I'm shocked, horrified, and sad to see Societies. I have no doubt it will be a good game, and I may even play it, but coming from an investment of time really enjoying a game like Simcity 4, I watch the footage of Societies and my heart drops and I'm getting seriously depressed thinking this may be the end of an era.

Announcement was only 1 1/2 weeks ago. Hopefully you will change your mind. Your copies of previous SimCities won't magically disappear. I do not believe that any game is really made to replace a previous game. It is not an either/or situation. It is about more games, rather than less games.

Please, if you understand, then I ask you to help me, us, the hardcore Simcity fans to help TM see the wisdom of the name change.

There is also wisdom in keeping the name SimCity Societies.

If you don't want to, then at least you're intellegent posting is making me think harder on how to approach this problem.

Thank you! Good Luck! :)

[King Faticus]

I think keeping the name is good for the game but not nessesarely good for the genre:o

The more I think the stickier it becomes:o

PS mark IM me if you plan on building another city in 3K

[bosiydid]

It DOES matter to me, Panikattak. God, it matters to me. I've been there ~ done that with COTN which didn't even get an expansion pack. :(

Maybe you'd rather argue this because you feel loyalty to TM.

Loyality is much too subtle of a word. I absolutely LOVE Tilted Mill. It also ain't breaking news, either! :D

I want my new games, fresh & different! :)

Mark,

I'll be honest, I find it troubling that you feel that you have something to add (comparison of this Sim game to other SC games) since you have yourself stated that you've spend virtually ZERO time with this series or this game.

Please do us a favor and stay away from arguments on why this is SimCity. You are simply not qualified to speak on this point. You only serve to cloud the waters, as you have shown yourself to be nothing but a TM apologist.

I was actually under the impression that you were at least familiar with this game. Having read in your last post or two that you only picked it up and played for a few hours makes most of what you have to add when it comes to comparing this game with previous SC games completely irrelevant. I mean this with all due respect, you are doing many a disservice. I'm not sure how else to put this but you are exactly the type of fan that should NOT be building a case for TM as to why this game is a good choice and a good direction to take SimCity into. How can you want a new game at the expense of a game that has been enjoyed by millions. You obviously don't value what was there since you've never picked it up.

WOW, I'm dumbfounded!

[King Faticus]

Alot of the simcity fans over at simtropolis and some even here are-were slamming TM using any means they can-could including critizizing their previous games, some even admitted that they only played it for 5 hours before uninstalling it, so how in all honesty can you tell Mark not to say anything about Simcity without more than "afew hours" when many of the sim city fans are not willing to do the same

I guess your game deserves more than our game

Infact I sevearly daubt that many of them actually played the games themselves

[bosiydid]

Alot of the simcity fans over at simtropolis and some even here are-were slamming TM using any means they can-could including critizizing their previous games, some even admitted that they only played it for 5 hours before uninstalling it, so how in all honesty can you tell Mark not to say anything about Simcity without more than "afew hours" when many of the sim city fans are not willing to do the same

I guess your game deserves more than our game

Infact I sevearly daubt that many of them actually played the games themselves

You will never see me slamming TM for any of their past games. I own Ceaser IV and I thought it was a great game, killed many hours on it. I don't think they made the originals, but I could be wrong, since I own those also.

I'm a huge fan of these types of games and have nothing against TM, other then I think they are heading in a completelly wrong direction with SCS.

I can't speak for those SimCity fans and if I had anything to say to them I'd say don't knock it if you haven't given it a chance. I have though, many hours, thats why I feel I can call Mark out in such a fashion. I hope this clears it up. IMO he really is doing SC a disservice, is it justifiable because SimCity fans are doing it, I don't know but the fact remains.

[King Faticus]

Alot of the people that used to work at impressions (the people that made the old cbs) work at Tiltedmill now except afew of the earliest members so TM in my eyes = Impressions

I also have played simcity since 2000 on the PC and love all Cbs including SC

PS I didn't mean to accuse you of doing that or even to come across like I did, it just hit a nerve i guess...

[Aushun]

Please do us a favor and stay away from arguments on why this is SimCity. You are simply not qualified to speak on this point.
Come now, that's a little uncalled for, isn't it? Everyone here is entitled to express their opinions and thoughts, in a civil and reasonable manner. I don't see Mark doing anything but. Please remember that not everyone plays SimCity to the extent that some SimCity fans do, but many of us have either tried it at some point or the other, or have respect for it for what it is. That's the least I could say of some SimCity fans' attitudes towards Impressions Games' and TM's products, which we happen to love. Also keep in mind that the hardcore players of SimCity are only a part of the intended target audience of the game (and any game for that matter) EA relies on brand recognition and mass appeal to sell the game; incidentally I doubt if all the millions who bought SimCity are playing the game to this day, they are merely examples of the same strategy.

[bosiydid]

Come now, that's a little uncalled for, isn't it? Everyone here is entitled to express their opinions and thoughts, in a civil and reasonable manner. I don't see Mark doing anything but. Please remember that not everyone plays SimCity to the extent that some SimCity fans do, but many of us have either tried it at some point or the other, or have respect for it for what it is. That's the least I could say of some SimCity fans' attitudes towards Impressions Games' and TM's products, which we happen to love. Also keep in mind that the hardcore players of SimCity are only a part of the intended target audience of the game (and any game for that matter) EA relies on brand recognition and mass appeal to sell the game; incidentally I doubt if all the millions who bought SimCity are playing the game to this day, they are merely examples of the same strategy.

Aushun,

If Mark at least knew what the series was about then I could take him seriously. Yes what I said was probably harsh but it's how I feel. He hasn't even tried the latest installment, he gave the previous one 2 hours.

Tearing this series apart and striping it of many things that made this franchise great means nothing to him. Ofcourse those that never picked the game up couldn't give to s%$#s about this series. If someone went in and ripped WOW apart tomorrow I wouldn't care because I don't play it, so I wouldn't be qualified to speak on the differences of that game with a proposed new version if one was being contemplated making wholesale changes. Just as he is unqualified to comment when the discussion pertains to why this is not SimCity, he doesn't know what SimCity is.

What if some haven't tried it and have no respect for what this series is but have the audacity to redefine the very nature of the franchies or at least condone it?

I have nothing personal against Mark, reading some of his post he obviously seems like an upstanding guy for the most part. Had it been Joe I would have the same thing.

[panikattak]

I had an epiphany and now that I know Simcity 5 isn't coming I burned off my hold over city and uninstalled SC4. I may lurk here and on Simtropolis for a bit longer but I think my Simcity days are over.

Thanks for the chat, Mr Duffy. I'm going to let the chips fall as they may. Hopefully I will be wrong and it will be a more than worthy successor to the Simcity franchise and a new era for Simcity will be opened.

PS: I didn't know about the Ceaser fallout. I didn't play them for more than a couple of hours each. Same with Pharoh. Didn't take long to realize I wasn't turned on by them and eventually they where lost to a hard drive failure and never reinstalled.

bosiydid: Thanks for the compliments. I hope I'm not letting you or anyone else down but I don't think I want to play Simcity 4 for a couple of more years even if we were able to change EA's mind and release Simcity 5. I'm really unsure but I'm definitely unmotivated to play right now.

[bosiydid]

Without SimCity fan this board would be nothing but a bunch of TM apologists patting each other on the back for a great new vision.

Many of these people know nothing of SimCity and 18 years of the game that sold millions upon millions of copies. Thats the painful part! They are ripping apart a beloved franchise instead of making a new game that appeals to them.

I am also getting kind of tired to arguing, eat your heart out TM apologists. I hope you never have to go through some other company ripping apart decades of a stellar run of a franchise you love.

[Azeem]

Another one of those generalization posts. :rolleyes:

I've said it a dozen times before - I've been with the SimCity series since the beginning, since the days it was on floppy and since the days it was referred to simply as an electronic toy.

[Techleo]

Well your off on one account. There will be apologists and conformists like myself. Some of us old schoolers will join the TM crowd. Perhaps I just like the direction Simcity is going:D I wana stick around just to make sure they hear the voice of someone who loves Simcity so dearly. Your sharp reasoning will be missed Boy.

[King Faticus]

how can you honestly say that? we "tm" fans can and do play games other than just Cbs, also who are you to say I will tell anybody it is a good game if it isn't.. I am not going to lie to suck up to anybody not even TM, and I will say outloud AFTER the game comes out if I think it sucks:mad:

appologist:mad: :rolleyes:

[bosiydid]

Azem and King (others),

My apologies for lumping you in with the others, it pains me read the posts of people like Mark. Painting everyone with one brush is never a good way to go....so my apologies.

You guys don't need another SC troll here so since I have nothing further to add I'm gonna scidadle. I hope you guys get out of this what you are looking for. I will continue to follow it's development other then that nothing else remains to be said as I've made my points abundantly clear.

Cheers

[Azeem]

There's no need for you to run off. Everyone is bound to have a different vision of what they want and your input is just as valuable as ours.

[bosiydid]

There's no need for you to run off. Everyone is bound to have a different vision of what they want and your input is just as valuable as ours.

Azeem,

It's not a case of self pitty or being a martyr etc. Other then constant *****ing and regurgitation of the point I've already made my posts will do nothing but irritate people here. So no need for that, you guys should be able to enjoy your forum without those of us who simply see no positives alway peeing on your parade.

If and when I have something constructive to add I'll post it.

Peace

[Marius]

I suspect the vast majority of Tilted Mill/Impressions fans ....
(the Caesar I - III/Pharaoh/Cleopatra/Zeus/Poseidon/Emperor/CoTN/Caesar4 fans) also have a long dignified history with SimCity.

Most of us played SimCity Classic and SimCity 2k... some even enjoyed 3 & 4 ...

Some of us have a history with other Godgames... Tropico, Civilization series etc... (populus and black and white ... for King Faticus)

We are very familiar with SimCity and loved some or all of its incarnations.

Unlike certain individuals ... who crawled out of SimFanatic communities throwing rancid words around ... we try to support and provide useful suggestions and insight from our previous gaming experiences to aid our treasured development team (Tilted Mill) to make their games the best they can be.

I strongly suggest that useful suggestions ... NOT DEMANDS ... be politely submitted and properly discussed.

Note. Some of the individuals from the SimFanatic communities have been doing exactly what I am asking for ... I tip my hat to them and welcome them to the Tilted Mill community.

Edited to add King Faticus' games

[King Faticus]

I also have played populus and black and white... I didn't like the ladder much but just wanted to include them into your list of "god" games

[MarkDuffy]

Mark, I'll be honest, I find it troubling that you feel that you have something to add (comparison of this Sim game to other SC games) since you have yourself stated that you've spend virtually ZERO time with this series or this game.

Well, if you had read other parts of this forum lately, you would know that I have been hiding absoultely nothing, Bosiydid. I have been throwing disclaimers around a lot.

Please do us a favor and stay away from arguments on why this is SimCity. You are simply not qualified to speak on this point. You only serve to cloud the waters, as you have shown yourself to be nothing but a TM apologist.

It's my game also. Not just yours. I like the direction it is going. I'm excited about it actually. It looks like a SimCity game that I will like. I'm a plopper, not a zoner.

As for the TM apologist part, I'm sure TM will get a chuckle outta it. For reasons we don't need to go into here, I'm not even sure TM would call me that. At times they are VERY upset with me.

I also hope you stick around & give SCS a chance. :)

[King Faticus]

At times they are VERY upset with me.
ohh yeah....:eek:

[Marius]

Mark as an apologist for TM ... Ohh my ... that is truly funny.

Let's just say ... he marches to his own drum ... and bangs his oponents over the head with the drum sticks.

He speaks from all orfices ... with no shame ... sometimes you love him ... sometimes you despise him ... but truly no hidden agendas.

respectfully, (to Mark anyway)

Marius

<and this time I agree fully with the direction TM is taking>

[Romaq]

The irritating part with some of the posts here is that while I might otherwise agree with their points of why they do not like SC:S as presented, I strongly dislike labeling everyone who sees positive things about SC:S as 'idiots' or 'bootlickers'. I dislike demands that have no basis in reality "YOU MUST STOP WORK ON SC:S RIGHT NOW!" and lack use in the discussion "YOU KILLED SIM CITY!"

I'm not sure I agree with the direction TM is taking, but my wife is interested in SC:S as shown in the demo. So... I'd like her to have games *she* enjoys, I'd like something she and I can do that allows us to game together, and I'd like... oh, what amounts to SC4, but in 3D, which *might* be CL2. To that end, I'll try to put in what effort I can to get what I think I can reasonably get out of it.

But 'all TM games suxx0rs, if u lik Sim socites u must b stupid' does not seem to offer much value to the discussion, and it won't help *me* in my goal to get all I can in SC:S development.

So if your goal is to try to get some lemonade from this lemon, I'm working on a nice juicer. Welcome to the discussion. And if your goal is to mark your spot like an annoying housecat, the 'ignore player' filter simply makes the nonsense go away.

--Romaq

[Marius]

HEH... my wife is still in love with Pharaoh ... she won't even load the Cleopatra expansion pack...

She saw me playing CoTN ... said interesting ... but still has a few years of Pharaoh enjoyment left... and then cleo...

So by 2012 ... maybe CoTN ...

It's her way to drill through the floorboards of a game she loves. She was still playing SimCity classic through Y2K... occasionally SC2K ... she tried Caesar III ... liked it a bit ... but the roadblocks in Pharaoh ... won her over ... and I can't seem to move her past her Egyptian metropolis phase. (I dare not push her towards the cartoony style of Zeus/Poseidon... Maybe Emperor... god help anyone who would multiplay with her... ruthless...

Anyway ... She will try SCS ... but may take years before she plays it on a regular basis.

[Techleo]

;) I hope Im not on your ignore list...:D

[John-SJ]

Romaq,
It amuses me to consider that the devs are probably the most adept users of the ignore list. Too bad so many people don't realize just how unpleasant vinager is. Eh?

edit:spelling

[King Faticus]

lmao Im probably on 20 peoples ignore list o_0
I would never know unless they told me:rolleyes:

[Romaq]

Yeah... that's pretty much where Mikaela is. I met her playing UO, in fact. And Mik enjoys playing the old DOS Colonization program from time to time. I do think a 'multi-player', say 1 to 6 player version of SC:S would be ... ah, interesting.

Perhaps one must choose a societal energy and meet certain goals, or have a base within a region and you must grow out from that base *to* a midway point to win, or somesuch. I expect the number of homes with a LAN of some sort is growing, and it's an area of growth for games that can encourage a home like mine to buy multiiple copies.

--Romaq

[Marius]

I threaten Ignore lists ... only 1 in five get on it... i generally choose not to respond to the trolls after they are warned...

... Unfortunately curiosity is a personal downfall ... so ... i sometimes read their posts ... just don't reply to the scuzz.

[Techleo]

Id speculate that houses produce raw workers and customers. Each venue, factory and service will convert those into raw energies. These raw energies are used to reach caps which open up new buildings. So the process goes. Very much like the original simcity on Snes. It was a wonderful balance really.

It should be noted though that the infrastructure like schools would probably open up more potential of the housing as well direct which type of workplaces and venues the people go to.

[Romaq]

Only Hamburg, offspring_dude and Sim Nation have made my list so far. I try to give people the benefit of a doubt, but when they peg the 'aggro meter', I'm done.

--Romaq

[Techleo]

Well warn me before you block me. Ill be good I promise! hehehe:p :D

[King Faticus]

I have only ever ignored one person and shortly afterwards set them back to normal... ack actually two people now that I remember but I won't list names:o

I don't belive in censorship but then again there is a point where enough is enough:/

[Marius]

to Techlo ... hmmm scuzz with potential ... no .... kidding ... You will know if i Ignore you ... comes with a PM when necessary.

However ... after tomorrow ... I shall be offline for a few weeks ... vacation in the Eternal City.

So ... spar with you all till tomorrow... and then ... see you all later.

[John-SJ]

I threaten Ignore lists ... only 1 in five get on it... i generally choose not to respond to the trolls after they are warned...

... Unfortunately curiosity is a personal downfall ... so ... i sometimes read their posts ... just don't reply to the scuzz.
Personally, I enjoy exposing the narrow minded foolishness of certain posters. :D

[Marius]

Yawn ... see you folks...

Life, Love ... and Happiness.

[majortom1981]

How is this a city simulator and not an urban simulator?

So if I build all farms and churches that would be considered a city ?


People need to know that there are other things that make a city unike not just LOOKS.

Thios game just takes another look at that

Technically sim city changed into an econimic simulator, not a city simulator. So this one goes back to more of a basic gameplay.

What good is a game if it gets more complex with each iteration and loses more fans in the process. This is an attempt to bring more people back to the game. Just look at Nintendo's success .

[prof786]

How is this a city simulator and not an urban simulator?

sounds like a question of scope. city simulation sounds more broader than urban simulation when speaking realistically.

[Adagio]

there is a difference between "not what you want" and "broken"

Usually I would agree with you, but in this situation "broken" fits better, as there's already been lots of threads complaining about it (both here and on other forums)

[John-SJ]

People complain because they perceive this game as not what they want. Whether they have correctly or incorrectly evaluated the information we all have remains to be seen.

Saying a game is broken just because some, or even alot of people don't like it is silly though. Making the judgement of a broken game is impossible unless you have played it, and to my knowledge, none of us has done that yet.

[Adagio]

People complain because they perceive this game as not what they want. Whether they have correctly or incorrectly evaluated the information we all have remains to be seen.

Saying a game is broken just because some, or even alot of people don't like it is silly though. Making the judgement of a broken game is impossible unless you have played it, and to my knowledge, none of us has done that yet.

I said a feature is broken, not the game itself. The feature has been tried in City Life and failed... so yes, I have tried it (and so has many)

[John-SJ]

I misunderstood then. What you were referring to is not very clear. The scope of the word "something" can be very broad or very narrow, but you give no hint as to its scope.