Can we import cities from say sim city 4?

[majortom1981]

i was wondering if there will be a feature to import cities from sim city 4 or any of the older ones?

I think that could be a cool feature and could make some of the harsher (note sure of spelling)crticis happy.

[Rnett]

Critics I think is the word you're looking for.:)

[Romaq]

The in-game models for SC4 (and for the rest as well) are actually 2D images at various levels of detail, so far as they are stored in the game. If you were to try to view the buildings from angles other than the ones 'permitted', you would see obviously flat and warped images that won't look right. At least, that goes for the 'custom lots' that many of us are fretting over. Fortunately for those custom lots, the *source* data is still in 3D, and it is *possible* that the author who has the original model *might* consent to rerendering the model suitable for SC5. Maybe. But that's not a sure thing. If the model is gone or the author chooses not to release for SC5, even if it's possible, it would have to be recreated from scratch with a great deal of work.

As far as the actual cities, it isn't likely they will port at all even if they do *not* have custom lots on them. Beyond the fact custom lots simply couldn't display without the source models, each building has a set of information attached to it that is irrelevant to SC5. The transit networks are likely to be quite different. The data and how to make sense of the data between SC4 and SC5 simply isn't there. They are two different programs with entirely different expectations.

That said, it would be cool if some things could translate or be brought over. I just don't happen to think it likely given the differences between games. SC5 really *is* a whole new game, not just an SC4 'upgrade' to 3D. And we who *might* consider buying it need to make our purchase expectations on those terms.

A certain few of the harsher critics don't appear as if anything short of the bankruptcy of TM and the release of SC4’s source code would make them happy. Even then, not likely. When they’ve stopped talking reason and offering positive suggestions based on reality to voice their concerns, I’ve simply dropped them into the ignore list with http://www.tiltedmill.com/forums/profile.php?do=editlist. I don’t mind disagreement, but foaming at the mouth ranting isn’t helping anyone. And some of what I’ve seen has no basis on the reality of possible contractual agreements, the realities of marketing and the basic economics of ‘if you want to shop somewhere else, do so and quit acting like a lunatic urinating on the door of my shop!’ They certainly are not impressing me into considering the product they favor over SC5.

Anyway, in the long run I think importing ‘good ideas’ from SC4 will be better off for SC5 than the means to import cities, if such an import would work at all. It would be pretty cool though, and I’ll regret not seeing my region in SC4 in true 3D with Mt. Baker in the background, something like this:




http://www.mik-maq.com/sc4tf/db_bellingham_wa_vert__aerial1.jpg



--Romaq

[majortom1981]

The whole city wouldnt have to be imported. Maybe the basics and the landscape?

Also maybe custom landmarks from SC4 can be imported considering we put down individual buildings.

I am just making suggestions. I am actually intrigued by the gameplay.

IF some things even if it was just landmarks could be imported that could really work because then you would have all the existing buildings for sc4 out there.

[Romaq]

The whole city wouldnt have to be imported. Maybe the basics and the landscape?

We have 'third party' tools on SimTropolis that will allow you to take your favorite SC4 region that you've worked very hard on, and make it an extreemly detailed 'image'. It is my hope that SC5 will be able to import based on this image. If that's the case, then any SC4 terrain you've built can be pulled into SC5. TERRAIN. No streets, buildings, or anything else beyond the elevation map. I can't promise it, but I think this is likely.

Also maybe custom landmarks from SC4 can be imported considering we put down individual buildings.

I'd really *like* that, and I'm in favor of the idea. But I don't think it is directly possible because of how SC4 models work. The people who made SC4 'cheated', in a way. Rather than have to deal with the full 3D model of a given building, they only captured what that model would look like from four very specific angles and at four (I think) levels of detail. If you don't look at the building from one of those four SPECIFIC angles, the building becomes a mess of stretched images. The data to *do* that sort of import simply isn't present in an SC4 lot. At least, that is what I *understand*. I could be wrong about that, and someone who's really into it can confirm what I'm saying.

I am just making suggestions. I am actually intrigued by the gameplay.

Excellent, and that's really a good place to begin: making positive suggestions. What I really *want* is SC4... in 3D. But I understand the reality that SC4 has already been done. Ok, so let's make SC5! Let's start all over: how does it work? What does it do? What makes a game like this interesting and fun... in a way that's going to sell very well. Particularly to people like my wife Mikaela. Notice I said 'Mikaela' and not 'me'. I don't think I'm really SC5's target market, so much. And I think that's why lots of people still playing SC4 are making a big stink about it.

But making suggestions is a way to keep involved and maybe coach the game in a direction I want to see it go. Even if I can't have *all* of what I want, I might see *some* of what I want. And having a game my wife likes even if I'm playing something else entirely would still have me be a very happy Romaq.

IF some things even if it was just landmarks could be imported that could really work because then you would have all the existing buildings for sc4 out there.

We shall see. If the Building Architect Tool found on http://simcity.ea.com/coolstuff/bat/index.php can be used to export to SC5, I think a great many people will at least have a sigh of relief (TM: HINT HINT!!!) even if they are not entirely happy with SC5. But I'm pretty sure that only buildings that still exist within that B.A.T. tool I pointed you to will be able to export to SC5. Once the data is in an .sc4lot file, I think the 3D data required is lost and has to be recreated from scratch.

Let's both keep our eyes crossed and hope for good news. Eyes... fingers... whatever.

--Romaq

[callagrafx]

The BAT won't help...it takes the LODs and maps the 3D building onto it, that's all. A building in SC4 is a simple (or sometimes not so simple) box with textures on it. For true 3D to be utilised, there would need to be some form of 3DS or MD3 file to SCS format conversion that reduces the poly count and maps and stores the texture info all in one file. A challenge.

[Romaq]

Ok. I have not done BATs, but I thought at least internally I built and stored using 3D shapes within the BAT tool, and that I didn't loose 3D data until I *saved* work into SC4 lots. If it's the case that all custom BAT lots must be done entirely from scratch... that's going to suck. Badly. But it would be a limitation of the BAT tool, not SCS.

--Romaq

[callagrafx]

No, not from scratch as the 3D data is still held in the gmax file. How those files get exported to SCS's 3D format and how much detail is retained is the big question..one I suspect we will have to wait for.

[Romaq]

Ah! I suspected the 3D detail was retained in the gmax file. Well, there is hope for 'something' besides a fingerpoke in the eye. Then it might become a question of politely begging the various BAT authors to show SC5 some love.

--Romaq

[callagrafx]

Ah! I suspected the 3D detail was retained in the gmax file. Well, there is hope for 'something' besides a fingerpoke in the eye. Then it might become a question of politely begging the various BAT authors to show SC5 some love.

--Romaq

Well, we're a pretty lazy bunch, so as long as there's not a lot of work involved, such as reducing a 1,000,000 poly count to 1,000 :D :D :D . It might be fun and challenging, but it all depends on the types of tools that will be made available.

[Romaq]

I could only hope it's a simple plug-in that can be added to the tools you already know and use for SC4. Cobb's buildings... the BSC... SOMY... PEG's Prods... CSX... the list goes on. The total loss of all that wonderful material (basic models, texture art, concepts, ideas) in SC5 would sadden me. I still very much wish to have a select group of SC4 BATers and modelers
tapped personally by TM and asked to sign an NDA (if necessary), then kick around the tools. The day of SC:S's release, custom content and tutorials could appear at an SC:S fansite or on the primary site, along with a genuine 'Welcome Home' sign.

The ties that bind in friendship and admiration, continuity and a forward view towards having to fuss over importing SC:S custom content to the *next* issue in the series: I hope those ties are valuable considerations to TM, and that they are in a position to strengthen those ties. Whatever 'Sim Cities: Societies' is supposed to mean on the shipping date, we have a huge, dynamic, creative society right here burning around SC4 and the effort to keep the game strong these years since SC4’s release.

So here's to hope that Tilted Mill will be very deliberate about how that burning torch within the SC4 'creative societal energy' gets passed on with SC5. A fumble of relaying that torch of 'creative societal energy' would be... spectacularly unimpressive for the start of SC:S, and a terrible loss that might never be replaced in the Sim City Series.

--Romaq