City Life 2 (IF it's real) vs Sim City Societies

[offspring_dude]

Which one would you get?

http://www.will2real.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/wip800.jpg

Looks sweet

http://media.1up.com/media?id=3318944&type=lg

Looks sheet

[DonMikimax]

Emmm, there is no picture of SC:S :)

[offspring_dude]

Emmm, there is no picture of SC:S :)
Emmm, it's the bottom one. :)

[callagrafx]

Emmm, it's the bottom one. :)

Erm...nothing there.

Any chance you could be a little more offensive? Maybe a bit more fickle?

[DonMikimax]

Emmm, it's the bottom one. :)

Yeah, it is the invisible bottom one:cool:

[LittleDutchBoy]

Hooray! Let's all play compare the promotional render with the early gameplay footage, weee.

Could you be more dense right now?

[King Faticus]

hmmm the blog didn't say anyhting about anything except a slam on SCS and false empathy for them in an attempt to attract SC fans:) the timing is conviniant aswell :) what a break for the simcity fans!

[offspring_dude]

Hooray! Let's all play compare the promotional render with the early gameplay footage, weee.

Could you be more dense right now?
That's what's so funny, this City Life 2 guy is already getting more support and attention from loads of Sim City fans (Myself included) after just ONE screenshot, whereas SCS continues to be derided after ten screenshots and some hints at the stripped down gameplay.

I'm ten times more optimistic over this single city life 2 screenshot than the crap Tilted Mill have thrown at us.

[callagrafx]

That's what's so funny, this City Life 2 guy is already getting more support and attention from loads of Sim City fans (Myself included) after just ONE screenshot, whereas SCS continues to be derided after ten screenshots and some hints at the stripped down gameplay.

I'm ten times more optimistic over this single city life 2 screenshot than the crap Tilted Mill have thrown at us.

Does this mean you lot will be leaving us for the City Life forums? Every cloud....:p

[Need_Help]

Honestly, I would prefer to get CL 2 if the screenshot is the 'real' screenshot of that game but I still don't know the gameplay of the game. Aren't many of you said that you will not be attracted by graphic, and you want to focus on gameplay? Aren't many of you said that CL is like 'rubbish'? Where are all of you who said that? (at least I can't see any at these replies) How do you know whats the size that you can build in that city and whats the minimum system requirements? I think CL 2 will need higher spec PC than SC: S because it has more polygons than the buildings and objects in SC: S and there are more effect used (I can see bloom, and maybe AA ).

Thanks :)

[LittleDutchBoy]

That's what's so funny, this City Life 2 guy is already getting more support and attention from loads of Sim City fans (Myself included) after just ONE screenshot, whereas SCS continues to be derided after ten screenshots and some hints at the stripped down gameplay.

I'm ten times more optimistic over this single city life 2 screenshot than the crap Tilted Mill have thrown at us.
And this support, attention and adoration couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that gobs of fans threw all skepticism to the wind, just because they went all emo after SCS being announced. Half the people who are now fawning over it would have shot holes in that questionable picture big enough for sasquatch to walk through. If you think the CL blog was anything but a quick and skillful attention grab you are very much mistaken.

Does this mean you lot will be leaving us for the City Life forums? Every cloud....:p
Oh don't say things like that, you're breaking my heart here. We couldn't possibly do without them. :rolleyes:

[Gil]

At least there is a train in this screenshot. And different cars. and a hint of real life landmarks (the gherkin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/30_St_Mary_Axe) )

[Sim Nation]

Comparing City life to SC , you know a few weeks ago if anyone had dared to compare SC and city life the would of had to go into exile to hide from the backlash , im troubled that people are now comparing SC to city life , with viable arguments .What was the devil now appears to be some peoples saviour .City life was completely snubbed by most of the SC community until few weeks ago , funny how thing change.
________
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[BourneID]

Comparing City life to SC , you know a few weeks ago if anyone had dared to compare SC and city life the would of had to go into exile to hide from the backlash , im troubled that people are now comparing SC to city life , with viable arguments .What was the devil now appears to be some peoples saviour .City life was completely snubbed by most of the SC community until few weeks ago , funny how thing change.


thats because two weeks ago... compairing CL and SC were like compairing apples and oranges.... they were both fruits, tasted good in their own way... but not the same thing...

SC was developed by a group we had a long history with, and trusted.

CityLife was by a developer that we didnt have a relationship with... had tried to do things to the game that were unfamilur to us...

CL had some issues... but it wasnt a bad game... just diffrent enough to not be able to connect with those of us in the SC4 community enough to jump ship. Some of the issues with the custom stuff, variaty of buildings and such made the game stumble out of the gate... many of these issues were later fixed with patchs and the World edition but by that time the damage was done within the SC4 community so you didnt see the move over.

But this was a first outting for them, I am sure that many lessons were learned and there is a pretty good chance that those lessons will be implimented.


Its oviouse that City Life had an effect on EA at some level... And SC:S is being influenced more by CL then by SC4.

that being the case... that puts CL and SC:S in exactly the same place in our minds... almost the same game infact... the diffrence is the fact that Monty Cristo has the great exsperince, they have a engine that they have a great deal of exsperince.... as in second generation of work on it. They have a better idea of what the community wants in the game... because the players have had a chance to play their game... and point to the stuff that they dont like....

much like the advance of SC3000 to SC4 its basicly the same game engine... just a great polish and look, tweaks under the hood and such...

[Romaq]

At the moment I plan to wait and see how SC5 will show on features compared to SC4, City Life and City Life 2. I have certain specific use-case issues that I will express in the forums here over time. The product that satisfies the use cases I present wins, but no hard feelings. Only cash. Or lack thereof. And SC4 already has my cash double-over since my wife and I each have a copy.

--Romaq

[MrCinatit]

Color me skeptical so far that this is indeed a City Life 2 shot - this could be a promotional sketchup for all we know. I must see a lot more before I am convinced.
That said, I did play the demo for City Life for a few hours. I found it very bulky and quite awkward. Once I did begin my city, I was quite unimpressed with the buildings and their variety.
Time will tell if this is a savior it claims. Besides, I am no where near ready to dig the grave for SimCity Societies yet - it is still quite early.

[offspring_dude]

And this support, attention and adoration couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that gobs of fans threw all skepticism to the wind, just because they went all emo after SCS being announced. Half the people who are now fawning over it would have shot holes in that questionable picture big enough for sasquatch to walk through. If you think the CL blog was anything but a quick and skillful attention grab you are very much mistaken.
That's exactly what it was... you won't find me denying that. It worked though.

And you're right, we probably would've shot holes in it. But the response of the Sim City community sums up the general sentiment right now: anything but Sim City Societies.

[offspring_dude]

Oh and for the record, I think City Life sucked, but at least the gameplay in a sequel - as described by this blogger - sounds more promising than what TM have promised us.

[callagrafx]

Color me skeptical so far that this is indeed a City Life 2 shot - this could be a promotional sketchup for all we know. I must see a lot more before I am convinced.

Don't think it's a composite, I'd say it was a screenie. Look at the tyres of the 4x4, they are definitely low-poly and if it were a promo shot, they would look like very spiffy donuts...in fact the whole scene would be dressed up more. This feels like an in-game...and set in London too by the looks. :D

[ccecill]

Wow, this might beat scs.

[LisaMockingbird]

City life was um...kindof boring (IMO). Baiscally it had one of each kind of building and the cities looked horrible - rows and rows of the same pink or blue office towers :eek: No subways, trains, or expressways, no "pipes" or wires, and really once you found how to lay the "pie" chart of social zones to minimize rioting, you could make money out the wazoo. The scenario goals were all pretty much the same (and lame), very limited in type of goal too. I didn't even finish all the scenarios as I got too bored.

CityLife (original or the new World Edition) was not even sort of similar to Sim City - which was actually challenging. From the sounds of the super SC fans complaints here, they would hate CL with absolute passion - even more than SCS... so I suspect the OP may be trying to joke with us here :rolleyes:

I myself liked Sim City 3000 over Sim City 4 cause it let you start way in the past and had more variety in building style (un modded). I actually think SCS sounds like an improved CL...That said - if they make a City Life 2, I'd still probably get it as long as it has major improvements over CL world. I plan to get SCS as well. I'm always looking for new games and do like building/strategy games.

[offspring_dude]

City life was um...kindof boring (IMO). Baiscally it had one of each kind of building and the cities looked horrible - rows and rows of the same pink or blue office towers :eek: No subways, trains, or expressways, no "pipes" or wires, and really once you found how to lay the "pie" chart of social zones to minimize rioting, you could make money out the wazoo. The scenario goals were all pretty much the same (and lame), very limited in type of goal too. I didn't even finish all the scenarios as I got too bored.

CityLife (original or the new World Edition) was not even sort of similar to Sim City - which was actually challenging. From the sounds of the super SC fans complaints here, they would hate CL with absolute passion - even more than SCS... so I suspect the OP may be trying to joke with us here :rolleyes:

I myself liked Sim City 3000 over Sim City 4 cause it let you start way in the past and had more variety in building style (un modded). I actually think SCS sounds like an improved CL...That said - if they make a City Life 2, I'd still probably get it as long as it has major improvements over CL world. I plan to get SCS as well. I'm always looking for new games and do like building/strategy games.
Like I said: anything but SCS

Nothing will really replace Sim city 4, but this game looks interesting nevertheless.

[Greyleaf07]

I will follow the development at both games, and I'll only decide for sure once one is released. I must say, however, that right now City Life 2 is doing a sufficient job of winning me over. There are a couple google videos out there that I beleive showcase material from it, and they are, for the most part at least, fairly encouraging. Not perfect, but I think it's the best that's been presented.

I think the City Life screenshot really drives home how much of a differance visual presentation can make. Half the fun of the game, for me at least, is getting the city to look how I want it to. Plus, the screenshot holds other hints. See the train in the background? That's a good sign. Still no curved roads, but that hasn't shown up anywhere yet (though I recently saw an announcement that an SC4 mod will contain them to some degree xD).

Heck ... personally, and I know this will never happen, but I think the two development teams should just merge and give us >one< good game that everyone can appreciate =P

[AdrianWerner]

I enjoyed CaesarIV more than CIty Life, despite inferior graphics (altough aside from Anno 1701 all CB games look weak compared to CL, especialy Sim City4). I will for sure buy Societies and most likely (altough not 100% sure) also buy City Life2.

Settlers VI, Sim City Societies, City Life 2... bring them on!
gotta catch them all :p

[Poetic]

I'll buy both too. They both sound intriguing and their gameplay sounds different enough to be able to enjoy both. City Life 2 sounds like a realistic city simulation in 3D and SimCity Societies sounds like a fantasy society creation. They both sound pretty exciting ;)

I feel like a loser, of course, because fans at Simtropolis are upset because the article mentioned you can make gingerbread houses and chocolate factories... I must be a big kid - the idea of making gingerbread houses & chocolate factories sounds like fun to me :o

CL2 will definitely take care of the part of me that wants to recreate real cities & SCS will take care of the part of me that just wants to let loose and make fantasy worlds.

[King Faticus]

well by the sounds of it you can direct social energies away from the gingerbread houses... btw I saw no gingerbread houses in any screenshot maybe it was a joke? (lol somebody refered to the pictures as candy o_0)

anyways I work at a bakery early in the morning and during christmas we got a custom commission for a giant victorian gingerbread house, it really WAS fun to make;) :D

[John-SJ]

Fun, Poetic?

Whoever said SimCity was supposed to be *fun*?

/sarcasm off

I agree, this really is beginning to sound like a fun game! Maybe I'm just too simple-minded? :D

[JuliaSet]

I'll buy both too. They both sound intriguing and their gameplay sounds different enough to be able to enjoy both. City Life 2 sounds like a realistic city simulation in 3D and SimCity Societies sounds like a fantasy society creation. They both sound pretty exciting ;)

I feel like a loser, of course, because fans at Simtropolis are upset because the article mentioned you can make gingerbread houses and chocolate factories... I must be a big kid - the idea of making gingerbread houses & chocolate factories sounds like fun to me :o

CL2 will definitely take care of the part of me that wants to recreate real cities & SCS will take care of the part of me that just wants to let loose and make fantasy worlds.

I think there is room in the game for some Llamas and Typing Monkeys too. http://citybuildingcontests.net/js/bac/tail_fire.gif

[callagrafx]

I think there is room in the game for some Llamas and Typing Monkeys too. http://citybuildingcontests.net/js/bac/tail_fire.gif

oooh, typing monkeys...should make some people feel more at home then :D :D :D

[ManagerJosh]

Assuming this screenshot is real, EA better watch out. Monte Cristo appears to be getting it right.

[schm0]

Is there a vote for neither?

Gingerbread houses, haunted graveyards, eco-terrorist villages, and "Orwellian states"... or the sequel to an already disappointing title?

[Hardin]

Sim City 3000 had haunted graveyards.

[Azeem]

Haunted houses, actually. It was an interesting-looking building, but it took quite a lot of space. There was also a rocket ship port.

[Cirugo]

That would depend. Based on one screenshot (and my experience with City Life), I would say neither. City Life 2 would have to improve VASTLY on the first to be appealing to me. It would need multiple transportation options, an INFINITELY larger pool of building types and larger maps. The same game with better graphics would be pointless.
As for Sim Societies...it's got a LONG way to go to appeal to me as well.

[AdrianWerner]

Oh and for the record, I think City Life sucked, but at least the gameplay in a sequel - as described by this blogger - sounds more promising than what TM have promised us.
Promising in what way? It won't be better SimCity4 than SimCity4 already is. At least Tilted Mill is offering us something fresh

[ManagerJosh]

That would depend. Based on one screenshot (and my experience with City Life), I would say neither. City Life 2 would have to improve VASTLY on the first to be appealing to me. It would need multiple transportation options, an INFINITELY larger pool of building types and larger maps. The same game with better graphics would be pointless.
As for Sim Societies...it's got a LONG way to go to appeal to me as well.

We also have to remember that City Life was Monte Cristo's first realistic urban simulator.

[Greyleaf07]

I think the worry is less that the social aspect of Societies will hurt the game by allowing "gingerbread houses", more that Societies is loosing ground on the actual city building aspect of the game. Nothing shown in the Societies screenshots is unrealistic - the Dictorial State looks much like cities of communistic countries, and in fact the shots that I presume are from more "capitalistic" cities look like generic American downtowns - it's more that it's just not that detailed or impressive yet. All that can be seen is generic roads - all of them straight, repetative buildings, very basic looking natural scenery, etc. The City Life screenshot is earning so much attention because of what it promises. The buildings look great, there is a train in the background - a step up garunteed, and when you look at the Youtube video, you see the game'm graphics features swaying trees, puffs of smoke from the chimneys, etc. It's impossible to tell much about premise on >either< game yet, but we can make predictions on graphics, interface, and features. Right now, the graphics and features are weighing in favor of City Life 2.

[offspring_dude]

Promising in what way? It won't be better SimCity4 than SimCity4 already is. At least Tilted Mill is offering us something fresh
It's not 'fresh', actually, it's just a rehash of different games. I never said it was better than Sim City 4, nothing will probably beat Sim City 4 until a proper sequel actually comes along.

[AdrianWerner]

It's not 'fresh', actually, it's just a rehash of different games. I never said it was better than Sim City 4, nothing will probably beat Sim City 4 until a proper sequel actually comes along.
I don't know :) Societies sure as hell sounds more fresh than any Sim city since 2000. Both 3000 and 4 were huge rehashes. The series was starting to eat it's own tail. Sure getting 'the same only preetier" is nice, but not after merely 4 years after previous one , when the previous game is still alive and kicking. Especialy since those games don't hav storylines or nicely scripted missions to add variety

[offspring_dude]

I don't know :) Societies sure as hell sounds more fresh than any Sim city since 2000. Both 3000 and 4 were huge rehashes. The series was starting to eat it's own tail. Sure getting 'the same only preetier" is nice, but not after merely 4 years after previous one , when the previous game is still alive and kicking. Especialy since those games don't hav storylines or nicely scripted missions to add variety
"Fun City filled with Ferris Wheels, Gingerbread Houses and Chocolate Factories! "

Go read the press release and tell me if that's your idea of 'Fresh'.... "Industry, wealth, obedience, knowledge, devotion, or creativity-"... hmmm, The sims anyone? If you consider a fantasy game a step forward in the series... by all means buy that game. But at the moment I'd take City Life 2 over anything by Tilted Mill...

I doubt I'd get either anyway, they're both probably crappy titles, for now I'm waiting til I can upgrade my rig and then going for Supreme Commander.

[AdrianWerner]

"Fun City filled with Ferris Wheels, Gingerbread Houses and Chocolate Factories! "

Go read the press release and tell me if that's your idea of 'Fresh'....

Of course it's fresh. Just not the kind of fresh you would like :)


"Industry, wealth, obedience, knowledge, devotion, or creativity-"... hmmm, The sims anyone?
Actualy it reminds me of Sim Town on bigger scale when it comes to style :)


If you consider a fantasy game a step forward in the series...
I don't consider it a step forward, it's not, it's also not a step backwards. It's step to the side.

by all means buy that game.
I sure as hell will :) I'm a long time fan of Impressions managment games.
I bought Lords of the Realms 1-3, Lords of Magic, Detroit, Air Bucks, High Seas Trader, Caesar 2-3, Pharaoh, Zeus, and then when TM apeared to proudly carry on the Impressions' torch I bought Children of Nile and Caesar and I loved every single one of those games. Far more than anything designed by Maxis. So yep, the guys and gals at TM have my full faith behind them, they haven't let me down even once.

But I do understand your feelings, God knows how much I've flamed Bethseda for making Fallout3, I guess I'm not getting a taste of my own medicine :D



But at the moment I'd take City Life 2 over anything by Tilted Mill...


If you're so hardcore then move you a$$ and get a japanese language course so you can play A-Train7. You will learn enough to play it before CL2 is out :) You would love the complexity and art style :)

I doubt I'd get either anyway, they're both probably crappy titles, for now I'm waiting til I can upgrade my rig and then going for Supreme Commander.
Neither City Life, not two TiltedMill games were crap, so I doubt Societies and CL2 will be .

[Wilfried]

Assuming this screenshot is real, EA better watch out. Monte Cristo appears to be getting it right.As that blogger (who works at Monte Christo) pointed out, they definitively do. At least they pretend to.

We also have to remember that City Life was Monte Cristo's first realistic urban simulator.It was surely not realistic. :p

[offspring_dude]

Of course it's fresh. Just not the kind of fresh you would like :)


Actualy it reminds me of Sim Town on bigger scale when it comes to style :)

We all know what a success story that was.

I don't consider it a step forward, it's not, it's also not a step backwards. It's step to the side.

If a step to the side is off a bridge, I'd agree.

I sure as hell will :) I'm a long time fan of Impressions managment games.
I bought Lords of the Realms 1-3, Lords of Magic, Detroit, Air Bucks, High Seas Trader, Caesar 2-3, Pharaoh, Zeus, and then when TM apeared to proudly carry on the Impressions' torch I bought Children of Nile and Caesar and I loved every single one of those games. Far more than anything designed by Maxis. So yep, the guys and gals at TM have my full faith behind them, they haven't let me down even once.

Caesar 4/CotN, both failures, marketting and gameplay-wise. (Reviews fared average at best)

If you're so hardcore then move you a$$ and get a japanese language course so you can play A-Train7. You will learn enough to play it before CL2 is out :) You would love the complexity and art style :)

Yeah, to hell with University and other preoccupations, why don't I just program my own game. :rolleyes:

Neither City Life, not two TiltedMill games were crap, so I doubt Societies and CL2 will be .
They all fared less than average in reviews and can't be found on most store shelves today unless you consider the bargain bucket a shelf. I'd say they were pretty crap.

[ManagerJosh]

As that blogger (who works at Monte Christo) pointed out, they definitively do. At least they pretend to.

It was surely not realistic. :p

To each their own. While City Life's social elements complicated the game unnecessarily, their graphics was reasonably realistic.

[Kuplo]

It depends on what MC does with CL2. City Life (original flavor) in my opinion sucked donkey dung. Some of the biggest complaints at the time were that once city was developed it had far too many of the same buildings, and far too many of the same cars. The screenshot posted looks interesting but I'd really need to see a full demo of the game to ensure that it isn't just CL with 2 tacked onto it.

I bought City Life deluxe even though I owned the original so that I could get access to the building tools which sadly were more of a recoloring tool then an actual building building tool.

I still have the A-Train Floppies laying around somewhere, but I'd need to find a program to slow down my computer, and then buy a floppy drive to install them, not worth the hastle any more. I don't speak Japanese, but I'd be willing to give Atrain 7 a shot in the dark if I could find it on the cheap.

[AdrianWerner]

We all know what a success story that was.Well, that was an art style though. And it definitly looked preetier than SimCity2000

If a step to the side is off a bridge, I'd agree.
Nope, more like a step off the boring road into the nice enjoyable bar :)

Caesar 4/CotN, both failures, marketting and gameplay-wise. (Reviews fared average at best)
Ermm..you do realize that CaesarIII got much better reviews than any of your beloved Sim City games ever did>
Funny, but using your criterias for "average reviews" Simcity4 was barely good game, nothing more.
SC4 might have scored higher, but not that much higher and that was a program with a lot of polish (by pcgaming standarts at least), while the biggest complain about CotN and CIV were bugs. Iron them out to SC4-level of polish and you have at least as good game as Sim City 4.



They all fared less than average in reviews and can't be found on most store shelves today unless you consider the bargain bucket a shelf. I'd say they were pretty crap.
Nope...all three got only good and very good scores. They fared nicely in reviews.

[Trixin]

I think that first screenshot just goes to show that there is no excuse for mediocre graphics like we've seen with SCS. CL2 appears to be more realistic, more variety and, oh my, is that an elevated train in the background? It will be interesting to see which game is more successful.

[Romaq]

I've finally gotten around to seeing the CL2 screenshot, presuming that is really what it is. http://www.montecristogames.com/city-life/en/index.html comes up 'dead' at the moment, so I treat a *single* screenshot unconfirmed by the game publisher for what it's worth. Rude, caustic remarks towards anyone simply raises the ‘troll’ flag and has me hit the mental ‘ignore’ button. If you want to get your message across, give me positive things you like instead of reasons to wish I wouldn’t perceive you.

That said, CL 2, from one unconfirmed screenshot, looks interesting. I might purchase CL2 and SC5 both. I may purchase multiple copies of both. If the annoyance factor gets too high, I may purchase neither and continue to enjoy SC4 for years to come. The great thing about SC4 for *me*, the play value is still there.

Factors:

1) Concurrent multi-player capability (without SVN hacking). I don’t care who the publisher is or what the title is. If my wife enjoys playing it, and I can engage her in cooperative/ competitive concurrent gameplay, I’m in. I’m on a LAN, and a game that involves her and I is very significant.
2) It appears Monte Cristo allowed me to pay for and download a stream. I know EAGames wants to push boxes off a shelf, however UO’s next client (and hopefully the game expansion to follow) will allow us to simply download the content without having to go to brick & mortar for what doesn’t physically exist anyway. I expect EAGames to explicitly demand the inane stupidity of forcing me to hack a legal copy of SimCity 5 so I can play it on my PC without tying up my CD-ROM with a physical disk. I don’t win by stealing from EAGames. EAGames isn’t going to win punishing honest people with copy protection, those who will steal will hack around their copy protection anyway. So the upcoming game that doesn’t try to screw me over for having a *legal* copy of their game has points in their favor.
3) My wife wants mindless puttering. I’m looking to recreate the fun of building a ‘railroad scale’ version of my hometown without the plywood board and expense of a model train, miniature cars, realistic buildings and whatnot. If I had a place to put an HO scale trainset somewhere that fills the apartment building I live in. Then I want the fun of having some Godzilla-like monster eat the city because the Bellinghamsters annoy the heck out of me. My wife doesn’t want to have to think too hard. I enjoy engaging my mind. The game most likely to satisfy both needs is the one who is likely to get our money, likely a license for three instances (one per machine).
4) I don’t know how to emphasize this enough, but I really *really* want to buy the game that has the current SC4 custom content crowd engaged in *porting* their GMax models and making *new* content.
5) All my life I dreamed of being an astronaut, engaged with Sci-Fi stories and whatnot. The game that allows me to colonize the moon and Mars is a ‘must have’ choice, even if I have to *wait* for that content to be created as custom content. Neither game has to *release* those mods, but making it clear such mods are *possible* counts.
6) I confess… I use cheat mods to set money at 500 million simoleons and I set the tax rates to 0 for groups I want, mostly to get around having to dink with fussing over budget controls for servicese. It is as if to say, “YOU the computer are a freakin’ budget manager, *YOU* twiddle the freakin’ budget knobs and stay the hell out of my way unless there’s a problem you *can not* manage without my help.” I will not shed a tear over ‘advisers’ that can’t be more autonomous in their behavior, and otherwise stay out of my way.
7) I have no idea where Whatcom County gets its power. As far as I know, we get power from Canada as well as areas far east from hydro dams and, as far as I know, from coal plants in other states. For all I know Whatcom County doesn’t have a single means to generate power. I *know* how big Whatcom County is. That pretty much makes the need for ‘power plants for realism’ moot. It isn’t realistic to have power plants every 8 to 12 kilometers, and while I would *like* the eye candy of a nuclear power plant, or SOMY’s Microwave Rectenna Plant (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=11118 (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=11118)), that’s all it really is: Eye Candy.
8) I *do* know where our water supply comes from, Whatcom Lake. There’s a big fuss over that because of development and tainting of our water supply by people using said lake for motor boats, and our drinking water is the repository for all the chemicals used to keep their lawns fresh and green. We have people attached to Bellingham’s water supply outside the city who shouldn’t be, and that is causing a fuss. How this translates into SC4? I’m using the ‘water’ to paint ‘grid lines’ every 8 tiles for placing water lots and roads for accuracy. When I’m done, the water will sit there nicely. I have an endless supply of money, and I’ve just made the ‘problem’ of water management go away. I will not miss ‘water management’.
9) Take a look at http://www.whatcommuseum.org/ (http://www.whatcommuseum.org/) and tell me if the picture doesn’t look rather ‘cartoonish’ to you. But it’s a real building designed by a guy who wasn’t a professional architect. http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=2650 (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=2650) looks cartoonish, but it’s one of the first mods I put into my cities. http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=4569 (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=4569) is pure, 100% ‘cartoon’. It’s still a great lot to have in SC4. I think the demand is for ‘level of detail’ and not so much ‘realism’. The game with more levels of detail is simply more interesting to me.

My wife and I have ‘some’ money. We *can* choose to purchase either, neither or both new city games for as many as three computers. There is simply no need for a fan of one to be nasty towards the other, and being a troll about it simply causes the argument to be ignored, at least by me. My wife declines posting. She is sensitive to people being abusive, and she’s shy about posting her comments so someone could respond with bitter, nasty accusations. But she’s very interested in SC5’s offering based on the screen shots she’s seen. I’m more interested in seeing what Custom Content and gameplay provide, and less interested in anything I can learn out of the current screenshots of SCS. http://www.montecristogames.com/ (http://www.montecristogames.com/) still returns an error with both FireFox and MSIE, while using ‘telnet’ to the webserver gives me a ‘faded_logo.png’ link, but nothing else useful. So something’s wrong at their site.

Anyway, not my problem. When I have access to an SC2 forum I will politely express my interests and concerns, and may the best game (or even both) win my money, as much as three times over.

--Romaq

[offspring_dude]

Ermm..you do realize that CaesarIII got much better reviews than any of your beloved Sim City games ever did>
Examples? Hardly. And I didn't even mention Caesar III.

Funny, but using your criterias for "average reviews" Simcity4 was barely good game, nothing more.
Really? Another opinion I think. Want me to pull out some fairly 'average' reviews?

SC4 might have scored higher, but not that much higher and that was a program with a lot of polish (by pcgaming standarts at least), while the biggest complain about CotN and CIV were bugs. Iron them out to SC4-level of polish and you have at least as good game as Sim City 4.
VERY opinionated (And not true IMO). Sim City 4 was actually heavily bugged too (Not as though this is a good thing...) and there were certainly bigger gripes with those two TM games than their bugs. Anyway, does this mean we can expect Sim City Societies to ship with a nice consortment of bugs and glitches? Not that I'm getting it...
Nope...all three got only good and very good scores. They fared nicely in reviews.
Even the ORIGINAL article that had SCS in it admitted "Caesar 4 fared only passing in our review"

[Romaq]

Ah... http://www.tiltedmill.com/forums/profile.php?do=editlist is so very nice. Wish I'd found that one earlier.

--Romaq

[AdrianWerner]

Examples? Hardly.
Look at Gamerankings. Caesar III has much higher average than any Sim City, especialy Sim City 4

And I didn't even mention Caesar III.
Well, that was the most successful city-builder in "Impressions style". Style that Societies recreates(albeit with obvious improvements and changes)

Really? Another opinion I think. Want me to pull out some fairly 'average' reviews?
Both CaesarIV and CotN got aroung 7.5 scores in most places, which is what reviewers give to games they think deserve to be called "good". It's not like Sim City 4 got many high reviews, they mostly went toward lower 80s.
If they are average then SC4 isn't that much better. And really... pull the average reviews, SimCity4 also had it's share of those

VERY opinionated (And not true IMO). Sim City 4 was actually heavily bugged too (Not as though this is a good thing...) and there were certainly bigger gripes with those two TM games than their bugs.
Nope, lack of polish was the biggest gripe with both CotN and CIV, much more than in Sc4
And "gripes"..please SimCity games also were always far from perfect, please...drop the rose colored glasses.

Both CotN and CIV were much less polished, had shorter development cycle and much smaller teams and budgets than Sim City 4 and yet they still fared not that much worse than Sim city 4 in reviews. It will be very exciting to see how TiltedMill will do with as good support (both time and money) as the one EA gives.



Even the ORIGINAL article that had SCS in it admitted "Caesar 4 fared only passing in our review"
Yeah...1UP article... that's atrust worthy site :D :D :D
Seriously I know you and most of SC fans have little idea about gaming other than Maxis games, but 1UP isn't very reliable site when it comes to pcgaming, they are very console biased and they're PC reviews are worthless. and they did gave propably the lowest score to C4 that this game ever got, or at least in top3 worst.
the real deal GfW article doesn't mention any of that nonsense.

[majortom1981]

Why is it that people are compeltely LYING and saying that the gingerbread houses TYPE OF city is the whole game?

You can basically make any type of city you want.

You cant compare the two games because we still dont know a lot of info about SCS.

People need to calm down around here and stop spreading the lies.

[Romaq]

For me, the mention of 'Gingerbread Houses' set me off on a knee-jerk reaction. I had to be reminded both of silly 'real life' building designs that are no less cartoonish for being real, as well as silly humor in the SimCity series where the game never took itself 'too' seriously. I've since calmed down about it and have a 'wait and see' attitude. I still expect my wife to have more fun than I will, but again that depends on if she and I can play within the same city at the same time.

She can build Bellingham with hippy communes and gingerbread houses while I be the Evil Ferndale Boss Mayor that grows their food and provides their industrial jobs (http://www.bellinghamherald.com/102/story/96026.html (http://www.bellinghamherald.com/102/story/96026.html%29) ). Then I'll have the fun of kidnapping and reconditioning any of her mimes and college students who get too close to my city. I think competitive/ cooperative play with SC5 like that could be a real hoot, if possible. Or if simply made 'possible' using third party tools like SVN (TM: HINT HINT!) even if they can't claim it as a feature 'out of the box'.

People need to calm down around here and stop spreading the lies.
Wizard's First Rule: People are stupid. People act like people. People act like the 'social energies' SC5 is being designed around. I'm just stuffing the most obnoxious variety into my 'ignore' list, then they simply 'go away'.

--Romaq

[offspring_dude]

Seriously I know you and most of SC fans have little idea about gaming other than Maxis games.
Get back to me when you can argue without resorting to trivial little insults.

But just for the record. I play a lot of PC games... but I don't wear it as a badge of honour. If you think playing lots of computer games is an honour worthy of boasting about, then good for you.

[Romaq]

Ah, yes. The sweet wonderful sound of the most obnoxious variety of forum troll simply going away.

--Romaq

[NitC]

CL 2 by far, Cl has a better transportation network than scs, and it's not as cartoonish

[Romaq]

Presuming CL2 exists at all, that it's much further in the development stage, that SCS has not frozen transit network features totally out, and that SCS's artwork is not still in the process of being refined.

That's a great deal of presumption, but you are welcome to presume what you wish according to the Wizard's First Rule.

www.montecristogames.com (http://www.montecristogames.com) dies on MSIE and FireFox. Lynx returns an 'Unexpected Network Read Error: Connection Aborted' error. Raw telnet to port 80 and a raw 'GET' returns the Serveur OVH website logo, exactly the web page if you were to go here: http://www.internetactu.com/

Something's wrong with MonteCristo's website. It may be totally out of their control, it likely is. I suspect OVH is having problems for which Monte Cristo must be screaming bloody hell. But until I see *something* from *their* official website beyond a single unconfirmed CL2 screenshot, it really doesn't mean anything more than SC5 screenshots that have been posted for years up until *official* annoucements have been made concerning SC:S.

So until there's an official demo and feature list of CL2, what you have is a serious case of 'My Vaporware is better than your vaporware!' I'm seriously considering the purchase of CL2. That is, when I have something more to consider other than 'neener-neener my one screenshot is better than all your E3 live demo!'

All your CL2 screenshot are belong to OVH.

EDIT:
Ok, I found the FRENCH link to City Life (http://www.citylife-lejeu.com/) though it doesn't do much for me without translation. Further edit to this post as I can lock onto an Anguish Language translation of their website. Monte-Cristo would do well to post cross translation flags on the website so someone who stumbles upon *one* can *easily* find the *other* language. i18n is a nice feature to demonstrate on a web page.

http://nycj.blogspot.com/ has the same 'something out of nothing’ info:

Monte Cristo is currently developing City Life 2. The screenshot below is from a blog by a Monte Cristo employee who is giving the fans a sneak peak at what's coming up. - And fans are excited about City Life 2. For most people in the SimCity community this is what SimCity Societies should look like and City Life 2 gives the fans what they were are hoping for and an alternative to SimCity Socities.

An official website will be launched in October for the game.

Stay tuned for more developments on City Life 2.

Ah, http://www.citylife-game.com/ is the Anguish Language version... no mention of CL2 there, and http://forum.deepsilver.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=114 has no mention of it either. So all I'm *still* getting from this message thread is 'my vaporware is better than your vaporware.'

Let's see some links to *official* Monte Cristo statements of CL2 from their *official* website *or* their forum, and stated by the publishers. Let's see some direct comparisons of known frozen design features of CL2 from official sources in the development team. And let's dispense with talk of speculation based on “some dude's webpage” is better than SC5.

Or Monte Cristo can say what they have to say in October with their release due out in 2nd quarter 2008. Meanwhile, SC5 will be shipping 4th quarter 2007. Or maybe you could compare City Life Deluxe features against known features of SC5. City Life Deluxe is *not* vaporware. But CL2? It’s just vaporware right now, and in that case *my* vaporware will *always* be better than *your* vaporware.

--Romaq

--Romaq

[Adagio]

How sad it is to say this, I'm actually more interested in City Life 2 than SimCity Societies. We don't know much about CL2, we only have a screenshot that might be from the game (but we don't know for sure), but it can't be worse than SC:S, can it? :(
Everything we've been told about SC:S has been disappointing, except for the removal of water pipes (which I'm probably among the few SimCity fans who's happy to see gone)
Based on the CL2 blog, it sounds like they might listen to what SimCity fans wants. Hopefully they have learned from their mistakes

I don't have high hopes for CL2 though, Monte Cristo isn't exactly well known for releasing great games, but neither is Tilted Mill :(

[Romaq]

Perhaps, perhaps not. Life is full of wonderful surprises, and fortune favors the prepared. If CL2 is in fact in *early* development, and they are in fact courting what may be considered 'disaffected SC4 players', horray for them! Er... hurry for 'us' too, for that matter.

Burnout 2 isn't Gran Tourismo 4. The friend of mine bought both games to enjoy complimentary but unique driving games. We may have both SC:S and CL2 at our household by this time next year. I certainly won't expect both games to have identical gameplay, and each may fit overlapping but not identical game values.

We shall see.

--Romaq

[offspring_dude]

Ah, yes. The sweet wonderful sound of the most obnoxious variety of forum troll simply going away.

--Romaq
Do you consider people who have different opinions to you 'trolls'?

[BourneID]

One thing that everyone must remember, Is that for us gamers this is nothing but a good thing for us.... Competition is the birthplace of intavation.

SimCity for years has had an undeniable lock on this type of game... "often imitated, never duplicated".. but for the first time it has a rival that oviously had an impact on the thinking at EA.


I dont think that anyone can say who will have the better game, or who will win this round.... but all I can say is that having 2 companies compete for our attention (and our money) is a great thing for us.

[Romaq]

Competition is good, absolutely. And it's quite possible, at least in my own household, there's room for both games. It certainly works that way with most game genres.

--Romaq

[arcan]

Something's wrong with MonteCristo's website. It may be totally out of their control, it likely is.
I must admit, MonteChisto's website used to be one of the worst I've ever been on (forum included). Often outdated (The delux add on was oust weeks befor it was mentionned on their site), problems to go from one language to another, and one of the most un-welcomming forum community I've ever seen. I asked a few questions and got shouted after, studio people posting on it once every other month or so, people there (users) most unfriendly and close-minded...
I was much interested in Citylife before it came out and I went there but not for long. I went back once the game was out, but found no improvement. So I just stoped going. :(
Pity for MC They loose quite an effective way to have feed-back.

[King Faticus]

I have to admit that I never heard of city life before all this happened and was curious about it... but when I heard the words MonteCristo... I just thought hell no and voided it in my mind, I HATE the community there:(

[Fukuda3]

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/6851/cl2ja4.jpg

...

[dvchronique]

Isn't you Fukuda3 who said on TSC that these are not CL2 but another game? ;)

salutations!

dv

[Imperial1]

City Life 2 now called Cities Unlimited (http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=148&threadid=90084&enterthread=y)

[Fukuda3]

dv... Un ami m'avait assuré qu'il etait trop ressemblant à MM3, c'est tout.

[ManagerJosh]

Ingles, Por Favor....

[Fukuda3]

It's french, hehe

[ManagerJosh]

Doh -_-;;;;;;;;;

[Anya]

Cities Unlimited sounds interesting. Thanks for the link, I just hope I have more luck understanding it than I did with CityLife. So many new games to buy :)

[Aushun]

I quite like the screenshots, though wonder what the response to Cities Unlimited would've been like if its screenshot(s) had got out earlier than SC:S.

[King Faticus]

it wouldn't have been noticed by the hardcore simcity fans and would have been brushed off almost completely, now people at simtropolis are even interviewing them:rolleyes: btw so far I havn't heard anything on gameplay in the two articles I read:o only two screenshots

[Techleo]

There choice to release those pictures was pure genius. They knew full well by making the claims they did that the Simfans would jump on there bandwagon to revolt against Scs. Whether they keep up the hype is up to there PR department. Lol Id hate to be the guy who said something wrong in that office.

[King Faticus]

seriously I haven't heard anything about the game play... has anybody here? ... besides the indiscriminate (we were listening and are making mayjor changes to the game) quote:rolleyes:

[Techleo]

Nah, its more or less a PR deal. They are early enough in development they can claim anything they want.

[King Faticus]

Nah, its more or less a PR deal. They are early enough in development they can claim anything they want.
that is stupid, there are no facts at all and people at simtropolis are saying "cities unlimited sounds more promising than SCS" how can nothing be more promising than something??

makes me laugh when they say that people who didn't like sc4 and or thought it was difficult are stupid:rolleyes:


It IS possible that it will be better in their eyes but for now it is unjustified

[Rnett]

Depends if they're wearing their rose colored glasses or not.:rolleyes:

[King Faticus]

beer colored glasses if you ask me:rolleyes:

[Greyleaf07]

Cities Unlimited is being reviewed highly because the screeshots themselves tell a lot about the gameplay. Monte Cristo doesn't >need< to say anything. The first one shows an elevated rail; that puts it miles ahead of SC:S. Plus, the graphics are really solid; and the buildings look realistic ... along with the vehicles, trees, details, etc. Even the origional City Life engine with the enhanced graphics would have a leg up on SC:S as it is, frankly.
Remember, the biggest complaint about SC:S isn't that it will be too easy (though that is a complaint), its that its simply ... too simple. How can you make cool looking cities if you can't even build railways?
I haven't given up all hope on SC:S. But right now, while Cities Unlimited doesn't show us much, everything it's shown is a step in the right direction. From what SC:S has shown us, there are more negatives then positives.
I understand the positive hype for the game, and I don't want to refute those who are looking forward to SC:S. I disagree with those SimCity fans who call SC:S fans "stupid." But with the direction it's going, the simple fact is that SC:S will push away almost all of SimCity fans.

[Romaq]

The 'trailer' downloaded from the CL website looks really cool, and I'm tempted to buy a download. The trouble at the moment is the amount of time getting sucked out of my life with various issues, and CL doesn't seem to have the depth that SC4 has.

That said, the CL trailer has a great deal of visual interest in the development of roads *not* on a grid pattern. I've no clue how far along SC:S is on freezing transit options, but transit is very strong in my mind seeing the CL trailer. I've been dealing with too much topo maps of real cities to be happy with grids alone. Mountains, hills, lakes, bays, ridges, rivers, streams, all sorts of geographical features get in the way of that. Bellingham is a merge of three different cities, and we have some really odd intersections with two different grid plans at angles intersecting. Modern suburbs and new secondary road construction are very deliberate in building smooth curves and irregular shaped lots for various reasons, including taming the urge to race when you can't see around the bend at what might be coming. Indianapolis was specifically built with diagonal major streets to make it easier to get out of and into town from directions other than north/ south/ east/ west.

CityLife, whatever other failings it may have, can handle irregular roads. SC:S doesn't show that ability yet. Real cities do not come in boxes.

--Romaq

[offspring_dude]

beer colored glasses if you ask me:rolleyes:
*Beer goggles

[King Faticus]

same thing really

[offspring_dude]

same thing really
Not really, because beer coloured glasses would imply that the glasses were merely the same colour as beer, whereas beer goggles imply that the user is inundated with a high level of alcohol in the bloodstream, which in turn has a dramatic impact on the nervous system and impacting on his senses overall.

[King Faticus]

fine whatever, but I don't see why you have the need to correct a simple mistake when it was obvious what I meant from the begining

you are aware that people who correct others loose credibility:rolleyes:

[Cobblepot]

Cities Unlimited looks to be correcting a few mistakes that they made with City Life. Me thinks MC has been scaning SC fan sites for ideas.

[King Faticus]

maybe even this one

[Romaq]

I would sure hope so. MC certainly responded right away concerning the screenshots, and they appear to be stealing SC:S thunder as much as possible. The problem is in timing releases. If MC times their release for summer 08, and TM follows through on an 07 holiday release, peak for SC:S will have come and gone before CLU releases.

What will be very interesting is if TM decides to slide the SC:S release for spring or summer '08. There isn't time to buy one, get bored with it before the other is out. In that case, my wife may have SC:S while I hold out for CLU. I would strongly suspect MC of following this message board. If CLU is really slated for a summer '08 release, they have time to hammer the heck out of things SC:S is perceived to lack, and also distinguish themselves from SC:S.

"Greed is good!" I'm hoping for some major greed from both EAGames and Monte Carlo, since I'll benefit most the more there is.

--Romaq

[Cobblepot]

MC already did one thing that impressed me. I went to thier forums and noticed that the players where working out thier own solutions to get CL to run on vista. MC jumped in and June 13 2007 released a patch that fixed the vista issue. I loaded it up, patched and had no problems running the game.

First game company I have ran across to do so with year plus old title.


oh and some settler facts if you have not looked them up yet.

KEY FEATURES


*Create big, bustling medieval cities: Plot your expansion, manage your resources wisely, and provide for your people. Settlers: Rise of an Empire offers an easy to pick-up gameplay that allows everybody from newbies to strategy experts to enjoy the game.

*Protect your citizens and your empire: Build up armies, vehicles, and walls to protect your empire. Everything depends on your economy -- Is your empire wealthy enough to supply a powerful defense force?

*Exciting multiplayer experience: Work together with one friend and play against another team -- Will your division of labor be efficient enough to beat your opponent?

*A full living, detailed atmosphere: The RenderWare engine creates an extremely detailed universe with numerous plants, animals and other details which will attract the player.

*Four climatic zones: The four climatic zones and the four seasons have full impact on resourse management and gameplay

*Natural interaction of Settlers: All Settlers have their own daily lives and they interact naturally with each other


Hmm this is going to be a tough one on who gets my next 50 dollars

[Cobblepot]

read this it is a blog about city builder and MC

http://www.will2real.com/?p=25


[Earlier this year we asked City Life owners to tell us what were their feeling about City Life and what could be improved. In case they stop by my blog, I would like to take the opportunity to thank the 30 000 players who contributed: We heard the message loud and clear.]

[Romaq]

Well, I'm very upbeat about this. I'm quite curious to know if one or both will be able to import USGS DEM data as actual terrain into the game. http://www.mik-maq.com/sc4tf/BellBaker documents my attempt to do this. But it's another thread and when CU has forums where I can post about it, I'll make noise then and there to see what turns up.

[offspring_dude]

fine whatever, but I don't see why you have the need to correct a simple mistake when it was obvious what I meant from the begining

you are aware that people who correct others loose credibility:rolleyes:
*lose

[MarkDuffy]

Not really, because beer coloured glasses would imply that the glasses were merely the same colour as beer, whereas beer goggles imply that the user is inundated with a high level of alcohol in the bloodstream, which in turn has a dramatic impact on the nervous system and impacting (sic) on his senses overall.

*impact

<sentence is also a run-on>

[offspring_dude]

*impact

<sentence is also a run-on>
Actually in pure grammatical terms the sentence functions fine, it depends how you read it. Impacting also works, but a better word could have been used.

[King Faticus]

just so you and everybody else is aware Im also Dyslexic and so I will occasionally msspell words

P.S. Grammar cops are considered the lowest bottom feeders on most forms;)

[offspring_dude]

just so you and everybody else is aware Im also Dyslexic and so I will occasionally msspell words

P.S. Grammar cops are considered the lowest bottom feeders on most forms;)
Tell that to your friend 'MarkDuffy'.

[King Faticus]

He can read;)

I wasn't pointing that comment directly at anybody:p

[simcity5_orbust]

:D IT IS REAL!!!! Simtropolis did an interview with the head of City Life, and they have been working on this game for 18 months!
They have ACTUALLY gone to their fan sites AND Simtropolis asking for what they think would make it a better game, and theyre putting it in!
They have released two screenshots (that one being one of them) and another REALISTIC looking one. So if u are still looking and hoping for a realistic city builder, this looks like this could be it!

[MarkDuffy]

Tell that to your friend 'MarkDuffy'.

Does the phrase "Hoisted by your own petard" ring any bells?

Spelling cops are the lowest form of human detritus known to foruming. ;)

[Azeem]

The more the merrier.

However, I seriously dislike Monte Cristo's customer support (or lack thereof) and so I'll get Cities: Unlimited only after it's been out for a while and if there are patches. SCS is at the top of the list for me.

[the Monkeys Uncle]

I'm very impressed with how much interaction I've been able to have with MC's people actually. Philippe DaSilva, a staff member there, been participating regularly at Simphoni (where he also did an interview (http://www.simphoni.net/cities-unlimited/articles/simphoni-interviews-philippe-da-silva/) earlier). Plus, the game looks absolutely stunning to boot!